Diablo 4 feedback (From a former D2 No. 1 HC ladder player)

Very good point and I agree with you that it is a huge issue. But, what stops a player from using a 3rd party website to log into their account and play on it for X amount of time for X dollars/Euros to get the item or level you want. Then we’re back to the problem we were trying to avoid by stopping trading.

Someone named StrikerJolt said this in regards to trading in the US forum:

1: Community, having the community interact with each other is important in the game’s health and success.
Destroy the community, you destroy the game. This is why retail is failing and classic is doing so well.

There is, with Set bonuses and some legendary affixes offering 10000% damage bonus or 100% immunity.

Because giving out your account details to strangers and/or using bots is much, much more difficult, and dangerous, than simply buying an item on an external website, which is what the largest proportion of players will do if the game allows them.

I do not like soulbound either, but after almost 20 years, this is the best solution Blizzard have come up with.

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Quin69’s open trade opinion

(Hint, He wants open trade but he explains in detail why its better than Diablo 3’s current system)

25:44

Quin’s reply kinda sucks, i dont like hes idea that blue/rare should be good again.

with today level of a-holeness the report is a good addition, granted it should be a human supervisor on every ban, before the ban institutes, ant the report abuse should also be banable (again by a human not a bot)

no thank you, this is not 1998 anymore, also “always online” is a thing

this is one of the very few places where d3 got it right

those were in D2 and they were quite balanced, the idea is not to remove it, but make it scale properly.

that can be solved via a very fast key bind option

scaling is what makes a game boring and uninteresting as you dont feel excitement to level to be able to do the higher lvl, and just meh your way trough the content

in pve yes in pvp NO

personally for me cooldowns were the reason why i played d3 less than 200 hours in total, felt like mini wow and the magic was gone.

That the hardest content is group only kills it for me. At D1 and D2, we could play solo and we should be able to do so in D4 as well.

D3 has proven well, that the group rift experience is broken, don´t make the same mistake again.

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This is the famous Red Shirt Guy from Blizzcon2018. Not only quin, But he along with Mr Llama, and every other streamer want Blues and rares to be good again. If they’re not then 90% of the items in the game are going to be fluff while everyone chases the Ancient set/legendary

As a player, I want to have choice. I don’t to be restricted to what the devs tell me. Watch that video in it’s entirety and it will change your opinion.

Diablo II did it great. On battlenet right now, I have a level 96 Hardcore druid with a magic green antler helm. It was a 2s (Socketed with X2 Ber), 2 to Druid Skills, 2 to Hurricane, 3 To Tornado, 1 to Volcano, etc. It is impossible for a unique/set item to roll that so it has the strongest roll in the game for a Druid. If magic/rare items aren’t good, then at that level (of 96) I’d be stuck with 2 choices: Legendaries and Set. Blizzard already came out and said Legendaries will be stronger than Sets so as a level 96 character I will only be able to have 1 choice in gear items when I should have multiple: Magic, Rare, Legendary, and set. As a player if magic and rare items have the rare potential to roll good, then I’m still constantly looking for upgraded loot even at that extremely high level and not ignoring everything that drops that isn’t a legendary item.

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Big thanks for this topic. Agree 90% of what you said.
D4 should go back to the roots, D3 experience is too fast paced, items should be tradable - only problem of D2 were bots, let’s make a game join with captcha and there will be no problem with people buying the gear. Most of them will grind it / trade with other players. And that’s how it should work.

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Hi all diablo 1 ,2 , 3 player here don’t comment much but just a thought
The end game in diablo 2 was farming and PvP the ideas above are fab not keen on clan system seems a bit like wow
And question for the d4 Devs
Go back and play diablo 1 plus hellfire add-on , diablo 2 plus lod add-on remember why you loved the game
Don’t make d4 to please the snowflake generation make it hard make it scarry make it so we die lots just like we did in d1 when we meet the butcher and we went to town and found spell books scrolls to beat him

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+1 agreed on rares should be viable. This is an essential part of freedom and variation in itemization.

Grim Dawn also did well by adding Monster Infrequents - which are basically unique items with a fixed cool thing that roll random stats on top of that. The potential is endless, and exciting. Legendaries are NOT exciting.

And please call them uniques…

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From external source, I’ve ‘learned’ that we’re supposingly giving valuable feedback, and it’s collected by the devs. I currently can’t say that I’ve noticed any of it, but nevertheless, here are few point on statement of ‘endless endgame’ and ‘endless leveling’ and stuff mentioned in that interview.

Mind that I’ll touch ONLY balancing, which is disastrous in D3 (often straight illogical and good as work of average intern - I have much much experience in this field and deep understanding of mathematical base in it).

  1. Endless leveling? Say why, and say how - if you have any intention to do this. D2, a game with practically zero dedicated endgame, manage to keep players - often top tier ones - for years in relatively satisfying item-hunt based on very low drop-rates.
    D3, on the other hand, offered ‘endless progression’ - based on borderline insane idea that accumulating 10,000 Paragon levels gives satisfaction to players. Well, it doesn’t, at least for me - I never felt a warm feeling when getting Paragon - too basic, too small and everyone has those…

Another ‘Why?’ is based again on D2 - we had skillpoints, in fact limited number of, and lvl99 wasn’t covering all wishes/needs. D3 - lvl60 in WOW-ified progression style unlocks everything, and since there’s no skill upgrading, there’s very little to achieve after lvl60/70. Oh, there is ‘artificial sweetener’ - Paragons, but why? Late levels D2 upgrades came mostly from gear (often very, very hard to find) which largely surpassed +1 skill. Lvl 99 wasn’t even needed in most cases…

  1. Balancing basics - yes, after D3-style of massing insane numbers in ever-increasing manner (changelog - set item x is buffed by 50,000% - before seeing it repeatedly, I was ready to swear that that info is april-fools).

How it should be done? I’ll answer in several points/suggestions, not all of which are compatible and not all of them need to be followed. Each one reveals one of ‘thousand truths’ about balancing :slight_smile:

  • Balancing is done with most balancer control, if the numbers (damage, but also dps and similars) is the best with small numbers - was present in D2, in hierarchical order over difficulties - best control is if they progress with levels to 100-200 base damage (dps, perhaps - it’s bad if dps become 1000, and CC+CD% bring it up for 70% / 700% (so 7,000%) is even worse - at this point 95% damage comes from crits, they are mandatory and whole damage is generally based on crit-mechanic).

Why? It’s completely possible, or even easy, to control what happens in 200 dmg range, and in 7,000… well, not nearly so.

Number of multipliers. Comes from skills, from Paragons and from trifecta which very fast become maxed and natural for all characters. What’s perhaps worse, is that EACH item found carries governing attribute bonus, Paragon attribute bonus and there’s shiny-happy modifier of 15,000% which is COMPLETELY UNNEEDED. Why? If each item has governing attribute bonus, and each advanced player have account-wide Paragons aplenty, then seriously, WHY? Difference between ‘everyone has it’ and ‘none has it’ is kinda nonexistant, but multipliers are huge and increase damage to… what it is today in D3, and completely out of any form of control - with patch, huge bonuses are given to setX, in fact so large to assure its dominance, while not knowing how other items are performing.

This is going for years, and I would like to hear again of ‘mathematical base’ for this from Mr.Cheng [grins evilly]. Or explanation on current ‘trillion situation’ [grins even more evilly].

  1. Please consider that good balance foundation makes individual classes more or less in line regarding power, that escaping pitfalls D3 had and allows greater number of viable builds, all of which makes game open and with lots of individual creativity of players while developing specific build, the one they could call their own.

Looking to balancing process in D3, I see NONE capable of doing this right (and it’s not a brain surgery).

If you lack experienced balancers with experience and good result records, you can make a contract with me. I’m aware that this is never going to happen, put it here as a proof of concept.

Which doesn’t mean that art of balancing games is a secret lost in time. WC3 team is very competent. SC2 too. They know exactly what they’re doing and why - perhaps consider some solution where those teams or individuals can take advisory function in D4, or check the results or train someone.

  1. I did used D2 mostly as a positive example, and D3 as a negative and ill-conceived. It’s nothing like anti-D3 campaign, but is a truth - this very important part of development, and in D3 is infinitely worse executed than in D2. Yes, apart from this I like D2 much better, and have spent 15x more playhours in that game, but those are hard facts with proofs, so you may skip some venomous comments, concealed or not. I just want D4 balancing not to be given to random nobody who fails at nearly every process step, and fails worse when trying to ‘explain’ his logic, or appear publicly in doomed attempt to explain how it’s actually good.
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Well put
I’m replaying d2 and I forgot how low the drop rates are it’s fantastic

David Kim’s biggest thing asking people is whether we want a finite system or infinite leveling system in Diablo 4. It seems like the majority want the Finite leveling system though but here is my take (For wanting a finite system):

.01% of players made it to 99 without botting in Diablo 2. I put around 1,000 hours into Diablo 3 before paragon and during 1.0 put another 800 hours in. When 2.0 was announced and implemented, I got to paragon 1400 and then ended up quitting. The thing as a player that I didn’t like was I had great gear, when the Necromancer released, I was in the top 50 on the Necromancer Leader Board with nearly perfect everything. The issue was 90% of the people in front of me were x3-x4 my paragon level and it was impossible to pass them and because I’m an adult who has to work, and I just could no longer play for insane amounts of time like I did while I was not working. I am now 90% disabled from the Army, but I don’t want to feel like I’m forced to sit in front of my computer for hours upon hours to be competitive just because someone else plays a lot. The focus should be about loot.

Earlier in 2019 was my latest No. 1 on the D2 Druid Leader Board, and the focus of myself and my other 7 friends was Loot. Find the loot, and the level comes with it. Once we obtained everything we needed and finally made the first enigma, then it was game on to have our characters atop above other Ladder characters by leveling. So there was a clear transition. If the game was all about getting to 10,000 paragon, it makes the item finding almost pointless because I will take less time farming items and then I’ll doing the tasks that give me the most exp and just do it all the time, every day, not leaving my pc.

With Diablo 2, the whole point of it was that level did not affect your power too much. A level 91 took some time and was not necessarily hard to get and the grind was fun, and compare that level 91 to a 99, there really wasn’t much of a difference. There was a few skill points, few attributes but the characters were almost equal. The big advantage was with a level 99 was you played for way over double the time than you did the 91. 1-98 is halfway to 99. That means hours and hours of more farming getting that perfect gear or at least the gear you need.

I personally don’t want to see my bar keep going rapidly and see myself level literally One Thousand Four Hundred times. To me, that’s just a redundant system. As a player, I want to work hard because getting from 96 to 97 felt extremely rewarding. It was a huge accomplishment to be like, Wow, I did this much work and I finally leveled. Playing for an hour each day and leveling a few times in Diablo III just didn’t feel rewarding and it got to the point where I just put the game down and never picked it back up

Edit: I’ve also noticed botting is rampant in Diablo 3. The Infinite paragon system almost welcomes botting because Diablo 3 is Levels (paragon) = Power. In Diablo 2 for instance, the thing that mattered was searching the world for the specific loot to drop (Some 1/10000 chance to drop) and when you finally found it, it was the holy grail and then you search for the next item, and while doing that, you leveled.

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im %100 agree with this dude.
and i want to add that i don’t want to see a “leave game/create game” cycle.
less RNG more Crafting/Questing.

All gear should be tradeable like diablo 2 as it create more interactions in game, no trade kills that part of the game that is rpg. By the way i sincerely hope you do not intend to sell old classes as expansions in d4, i can tell you now i will take you to court for that, i am not going to stand for that greed crap anymore.

Locking tradeables down did not prevent gold sellers from doing their job, they just dragged players into their game instead, all you did with d3 was to punish the player.

As for class specific uniques i’m not a big fan of that system, you remember d2 if you got a paladin item as a necro for example you could trade that item to a paladin, now if all items are to your class then you are limited to trade with that class, it’s not a good system to be perfectly honest.

Trading was a serious part of the game in d2, with your fear of goldsellers you basically killed trading in d3, learn from that and bring it back in d4.

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Please make all Act bosses be farmable again like in D2, and make/have them drop some proper loot i miss doing some of these runs and feel like its part of Diablo too.

I been thinking about Diablo 2 3 and 4.
Diablo 2 was neat. Diablo 3 was worse.
Fine. I wont play it.
But. In Diablo 4 you still go with no attributes because its easier to upgrade Diablo 3 to a balanced pvp form.
With your current and reworked affixes and main power sources (attack defense). you even added a stupid dodge and dash function in D4 because of this. and just rework and calculate some legendary powers to work with your skills and talents.

I say just go with the master arpg plan it is time.
Which one idea of it is to make it a semi-mmo game. love you guys for that one in D4 to make it finally a open world.

Anyways you should have all these sources available by now.

Strenght,Dex,Int,Energy etc.

Then build and improve the fast hit rate, fast cast rate, fast hit recovery (THIS MECHANIC ALLOWS THE GAME TO GO SLOW OR FAST ITS REALLY ALL ABOUT REALISM SINCE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GO FAST OR SLOW IN REAL LIFE.)

And build skills and talents and items around that.

Hell you can still call it attack and defense to summarise it all up.

But in a dungeons and dragons game or >arpg< (roleplaying game)

There is magic and physical damage so there should be resistances too.

I dont even understand why you always wait and wait or just upgrade your broken diablo 3 game so diablo 4 will look better.

Yeah it will be better but not great.

Hell we can only go to level 40 because of your weak founded base of no attributes with that levels 1 = 2 attack and 5 defense level 2 = 4 attack and 10 defense bullshit.

Its like this. so just go with it. and make the Diablo name and the ARPG GENRE PROUD!

(And please do something about Ancient items incomparison to mythic with 4 legendary powers and ancients have only 1.)

Hell i only played Diablo 2 classic because it was an endless yellow rares grind which were very hard to find all maxed out gear for.

So please make more affixes and ones that are actually worthy of existing in this game.

So when i find a rare item ancient or mythic i dont wanna know the mythic item has 4 legendary powers min max damage only arranging in between 100 and 200 instead of 100 and 300 for example. make every item so they can be always better. but the legendary powers are fixed yeah duh.

Even our beloved Potions can be brought back by doing this.

I can really tell this game is founded by a dumb group of people >? Looks like a chinese game. and if this ''david kim guy or what else has trouble then recruit or hire some more skilled people!) but without hard feelings THANK YOU!

Edit, please make the townportals visible again not just the loadingbar.

I agree with everything you said aside from stat allocations but your post was a very good read! But I’d also like to add in that I don’t think the Developer team is dumb. I think the biggest issue right now is the Developers lack ARPG knowledge. That is not to offend either. Obviously they can’t be subject matter experts in every single title they release. The big thing is Diablo 1 came out in the 1996 and Diablo 2 came out in 2000. I’m sure most developers working on the project currently were in their teens and just didn’t play the title or just didn’t make it to end game. They are taking most of their ideas straight from WOW because it’s the IP that makes them the most money, and ideas from Starcraft. The developer team should all play Diablo 1, 2, and 3, and reach end game on all 3 games since they are designing Diablo 4.

This however is the time for the Diablo 4 Developer team to listen to these Diablo subject matter experts. People who are the most hardcore fans and understand the game from more than just the surface of it. It wouldn’t happen, but I would love to see Blizzard say, hey, send us something that proves you are a Diablo subject matter expert, Leaderboard placements from Diablo 1, 2 or 3, maybe hours played if it were Diablo 3, Streamers who stream the game, and then once they narrow the number down to a Flight sized player base, then those players can give their opinion on very specific things Blizzard wants to know, while still maintaining contact with the community of casual and not so hardcore players. Will most likely never happen, but it’s a thought.

I really wished they changed the Word “Legendary” back to “Uniques” and changed “Mythics” to something like “Antiques” because their current tiers of gear sounds like a copy paste from World of Warcraft. Just my two cents of my side thought.

trading doesnt work when every player is swimming in cash. it happened in diablo 2 and 3 and will most likely happen in 4.

I just want to add that i wish skills had different visual based on skill level, i mean level 1 Fireball should have short range and small splash on impact, while level 20 travels far and nuke when it lands.

Having the same visual on all levels and just change some numbers instead of 100 damage i see 1000 on screen that`s kind of cheap.

Is funny because on attack speed you actually hit faster, the animation is shorter just like in movement speed.

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