3x 12 cost minions on board by turn 5? Conjurer's Calling needs nerf

General Discussion
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Normally I don’t waste time complaning about cards on this forum, because well, it’s pointless…

However for the first time In the what, 4 years I’ve played, I think I had to… This card, is retarded. The card without ‘Twinspell’ is ALREADY insanely good considering it only has a cost of 3, but to be able to cast it 2 times (4 times in 1 game) is just insane…

Not only is it not like echo, where it atleast vanish if you don’t use it the same turn you use it the first time… nonono, now you can actually just keep it for another turn.
Being able to have 3 x 12 cost minion on the board by turn 5, is something I really can’t see anyone can think is balanced, and with what? only having used 5 cards to get it. It is simply just insane

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How many times has this happened to you?

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Since I can’t post links for some reason, I can’t even post the replay sadly

But often waaaay too often!

They get a mountain giant on turn 4 if they got coin, and then by turn 5 they get to use twinspell twice with use of coin… and you literally can’t do anything against it. There is no way to prevent it. All they need are 2 cards 1 Mountain Giant and 1 spell, BOOM! 3x 12 cost minions on the board for the total cost of 10 mana over 2 turns… and that is again ONLY on turn 5, and not only that, it’s guaranteed that you will only get Grave Horror or Mountain Giant - because it’s the only 12 cost minion in standard rotation, so you are 100% guaranteed to get minions with at least 7/8 stats… if that is not ridiculous, I really don’t know what is!

It is not like it requires ANYTHING special, all it requires is for you to only play cards that makes your hand not lose cards, or just sit idle for 4 turns and have a coin. If you then have 1 mountain giant that survive 1 turn, then you will have 3 7/8 minions on the board by turn 5…

THAT is insane, and I really can’t see how anyone can called that balanced!

I mean it is not even as if you have to build your entire deck around it… because all you need is 4 card slots in your deck to have this insane combo (and then you can even get to use it a total of 2 times)… because it only requires 2 card for that retarded combo… 1x Conjurer’s Calling and 1x Mountain giant… nothing more.

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Here’s a tip: Put the link to the replay in the reply box, highlight it, then press Ctrl+Shift+C. That’ll put it in a codeblock that you can post.

The reason you can’t post links is cuz you haven’t attained the required Trust Level (You can read more about it here: The Ultimate Forum Guide (Codes, Trust Levels, FAQ) - #16 by NinetyNine-21107)

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It’s no different than the Khadgar + power of creation combo… You get 24 mana worth of minions for the cost of 10… how can you call THAT balanced? Again it is not even because you need to work for it, or work it up… all you need to do is it have those 2 cards in your hand and boom, there you got 24 worth of minions…

I just saw a where they got 4xCain Bloodhoof on the board… like, forreal? that is the 2nd time I’ve seen that over 3 days

I’m completely okay with the OP Dr. Boom 2.0 aka Blazemaster Boom, because atleast it requires you to build him up having spent a 3+ cards of a minimum cost of 3 mana cards to obtain his effect! But then try and compare it!

you can get a board worth 24 mana cost from a 10 card combo you can play in 1 turn… or 32 cost worth of minions from 11 mana cost…

then compare it to Blazemaster Boom! It requires ATLEAST 9 cost worth of cards (at the minimum) just to be able to cast him with full effect, and you are STILL limited to turn 7 before you can throw him… at a total cost of 16 mana for his effect…

compared by that to mage, blazemaster boom is INSANELY underpowered to this, and he can atleast ONLY be used once! while the 2 mage combo can be used twice… and BOTH are possible to have within the same deck!

Please explain to me how anyone can consider it balanced

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All the OP cards that needs a nerf and u wanna nerf conjurers calling because someone got lucky? You’re either some rank 20 noob or just a complete idiot.

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All the OP cards that needs a nerf and u wanna nerf conjurers calling because someone got lucky? You’re either some rank 20 noob or just a complete idiot.

Dude that’s not lucky… it’s called math, you should try and use some (though I actually have done the math for you)… It’s a simple mana count, and I did the counting for you and compared it…

unlike other cards but Conjour’s Calling + Mountain giant is a a 110% garanteed 7/8+(since there are only 2 types of 12 cost minions this rotation) minion you can collect 3 of if you can get the mountain out on turn 4 (and keep it alive for turn 5) and have coin and conjour’s calling in your hand… or simply get it out on turn 5 and have conjour’s calling on turn 6… and 11 mana for 36 manacost worth of minion…

for your information I’m rank 11 - 9, but even so it doesn’t take a legend rank to do simple math… but apparently it takes waaaaaaay more for you apparently since you can’t even see it or do the simple math!

Worst part is you can’t even figure out how to disprove what I say, or come with any counter argument or even say which other cards are even more OP compared to Conjourer’s calling…

All you can say is "I don’t think so… therefor you are an idiot…"

Let me guess, you are Christian and believe in God as well, and use the same sort of argument, every time a scientist proves something? "I don’t believe in science… unless God can substantiate…" :upside_down_face::upside_down_face:

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There isn’t actually any luck involved in that combo. Conjurer’s Calling goes off minion cost, Mountain Giant costs 12

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Well, tbh, I suggest teching in a way to deal with the mountain giant. You’re saying they play the MG the turn before they play Conjurer’s Calling………so deal with the MG before they can play CC. There are a fair amount of classes that have minion removal of some kind by turn 4/5…Mage has Polymorph (4), Shaman has Hex (4), Priest has Shadow Word: Death, Rogue has Walk the Plank…or Sap. Even Warriors and Paladins can deal with it in 2 cards with Whirlwind/Execute or catching it with a Repentance secret and finishing it off. The only ones who might struggle dealing with such a minion in the early game are maybe Hunter an Warlock…but I digress. (Edit: Actually Hunter can use Hunters Mark and a cheap spell like Rapid Fire)

The fact of the matter is this…there are plenty of options to counter this before it happens. You can’t come on here and complain that something needs nerfing because you haven’t put a way in your deck to counter the opponents tactics.

In the last meta Wall Priest, OTK Priest, Beast Hunter and Odd Paladin were running rampant…but you know what? I successfully climbed to rank 3 from 20 (I hadn’t played competitive for about 4 months) in about 7 weeks just playing casually using a Dragon Priest deck that I’d tailored to counter the strongest decks in the meta.

The solution to EVERYONE who comes on here complaining that certain cards need nerfing is NOT that they need nerfing, it is simply that they need someone to sit down and work out how to counter them…usually the solutions are a lot more simple than you think. But in a lot of cases people are crying out for nerfs because they want to play a specific deck and the simple fact of the matter is their deck isn’t a match up to the deck they are complaining about and in those cases, sorry, but your deck isn’t good enough, you should really find something more competitive to play.

Strong decks do have one of 2 effects on any given meta:

  1. They are strong so other people start to play them too…until most of the people in the meta are playing that deck and it becomes a dominant deck of the meta
  2. They are strong so lots of people start playing it, but then someone devises a counter deck. All the smart players start playing that counter deck knowing they can farm wins and all of a sudden the strong deck starts to disappear because its win rate has plummeted.

I suggest trying option 2 :slight_smile:

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Well, tbh, I suggest teching in a way to deal with the mountain giant. You’re saying they play the MG the turn before they play Conjurer’s Calling………so deal with the MG before they can play CC. There are a fair amount of classes that have minion removal of some kind by turn 4/5…Mage has Polymorph (4), Shaman has Hex (4), Priest has Shadow Word: Death, Rogue has Walk the Plank…or Sap. Even Warriors and Paladins can deal with it in 2 cards with Whirlwind/Execute or catching it with a Repentance secret and finishing it off. The only ones who might struggle dealing with such a minion in the early game are maybe Hunter an Warlock…but I digress. (Edit: Actually Hunter can use Hunters Mark and a cheap spell like Rapid Fire)

The fact of the matter is this…there are plenty of options to counter this before it happens. You can’t come on here and complain that something needs nerfing because you haven’t put a way in your deck to counter the opponent’s tactics.

I’m VERY sorry to say that, but that is such a ridiculous thing to say… "just deal with it before it happens…" how dense are you exactly?..

The second anyone sees a MG on turn 4 they do everything to get it off the board the very same turn, especially because they know what comes next if they don’t!..

Not only that considering it’s pretty much the ONLY mage deck I have seen the past 30 last games I’ve played it is not like it is not that one haven’t figured out how what cards people have in their deck already from the mulligan… So board removal is pretty much the only thing I mulligan for when I see I match against a mage cause it’s 100% certain that’s the deck they rock…

what makes it even more of a lame a$$ respond is your way of basically saying "Just deal with it"… well by turn 4 having to deal with an 8/8 minion, requires you have to have had the insane luck of having those very few cards who can deal with it that early in 1 turn and with 5 mana that is NOT a lot af cards which can do that!

And funny enough, I DO have exactly a deck that consist of all the heavy removal cards from warrior… Since my deck contains both 2xExecute, 2xShield Slam, 2xShield Block, 2xDyn-o-matic, 2xBrawl, and 2xWarpath but unless I happen to win a brawl, or been able to build up armor 2 turns of armor without losing it and then draw 1 Shield Block + Shield Slam, or I so happens to have both execute or warpath or a minion on the board… there is exactly 0 WAY of preventing it, and once they have managed to use that Conjourer’s calling, on a MG it is next to impossible to turn board around unless you are insane with your RNG

So your strategy to "Just deal with it before it can happens" is pretty much like asking Elon Musk to "just go to space and start colonizing space"… yeah as if it was just that easy, and if he could, don’t you think he already would…:roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

Your answer is pretty much just "prey to RN-Gesus that you get exactly those cards to deal with it by turn 5 because else I know you are fuuuucked"

The problem of it is that it being so OP that if you don’t get to prevent it from happening your game is SO tilted that by turn 5 YOU CAN’T RECOVER FROM IT! and that is from that alone that the mage doesn’t need to have ANY board control or done ANYTHING to build it up for it… They JUST need to be able to mulligan 2 cards and have the 1 card survive for 1 turn, and then you have NO way of turning it, unless RN-Gesus are so strong in you that you get JUST the cards to be able to prevent it…

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I honestly can say, I expected this kind of outraged response, and I find it quite amusing that you are turning your rage to a person who is trying to advise and help you. Yes you do need luck to get the card to deal with an 8/8 minion on turn 4…but your opponent ALSO needs luck to draw both a Mountain Giant AND a Conjurer’s Calling by turn 5, so don’t pretend like you’re the Only person in this game who need a bit of luck sometimes. Just because I don’t agree that cards need to immediately be nerfed just because they are strong or people have found a way to combo them with something else to make a strong play, that doesn’t make my response

you arrogant pr*ck. Don’t worry, I won’t bother trying to help you out with advice any more.

Figure your own sh*t out and enjoy getting b**chslapped on the ladder with your rigid mentality

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Conjurers Calling is nothing compared to Raiding Party and the Token Druid synergies.
If you put enough pressure on the mage they are not able to play the big minions anyway.
The only thing I must admit, Blizzard needs to print more cards that are 12 mana cost. so Conjuring the Giant will not only have 2 options.

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Yeah, this is where I see one of two problems with these mage decks, 50% chance of getting a taunt is pretty brutal all by itself, and I personally think CC needs a higher mana cost so it’s less easy to “combo” during later turns. CC mages are literally weaker in wild than they are in standard, because each use of CC has much higher odds of not creating yet another taunt…

Aside of that I’m pretty sure the archetype as it stands isn’t built to last as far as standard is considered, because eventually the draw engine will rotate out, which will delay the entire sequence of events in the first place.

I will say though that part of the reason these decks are so strong right now is the draw engine behind it. Got conjurer’s calling in your starting hand? Good, now hard-mulligan the other cards for book of spectres, and if you hit it: GG. It’s that consistency I find hard to keep up with, and I honestly can’t blame people for being frustrated about loosing matches in spite of having made all the right decisions, which in terms of conjurer mage is to mulligan for hard-removal, and hoping to hit it in time.

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You didn’t help, and you didn’t even get the point I tried to make in the first place… that while a 7 cost card that needs building with a minimum total cost of 16, compared to a combo with a total cost of 10 that can be done 4 times in 1 game… It’s strong enough to be able to pull it off once, or just twice in total, but for it to be useable FOUR TIMES in 1 single game compared to other cards again like Blasemaster boom that needs both build up are still underpowered compared to that combo… when you can’t even see that you aren’t even fit to give “advice”

And i’m not arrogant… but you didn’t help nor did you give advice… you just posted obvious stuff like “oh polymorph is a good card to use to counter a big minion”… like really? REALLY? Wauw what a superb advice, geee wish I have thought of a something like that! What next? Are you going to advice people to put on a warm jacket if it is freezing outside?

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If you play aggro you should know that mage is weak and wins only by highroll
if you play control then fuc**ing control the board and stop crying

as simple as that
mage is highroll
there’s always a highroll deck that lives only on that
remember turn 3-4 barnes into Y’Shaarj?
now fu**k that highroll

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Im quite sure he got the point.

But what advice did you expect?

I mean like i continouly said over the year of my pressence in this Forum here: im not gonna argue over the way you two deliver your messages in this thread but what do you want to hear?

Is it strong? Hell yeah. But do they get it all the time? Hell no.

Ever played against a priest who did nothing before he died?

Here you go. Strong deck with lowroll draw.

It happens.

I dont know the deck exactly. I fooled with one version around a little bit but that was it so im hardly an expert.

What is the decks plan B? What do they do when the spell and one giant are in the last 5-7 cards. How do they surive?

Thats my genuine Question.

The only time i know i play against this deck is when they actually hot the combo. So all the other mages ive slain could br that deck and i have no idea.

Can someone pls explain the plan b gameplan? Im getting interested

Ty xoxo

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Didn’t really want advice, because there is nothing you can’t argue about, it’s all up to blizzard at the end of the day. I just think it’s sad when you can get so broken cards in a game while others like blazemaster boom is very well balanced… the problem is guys like those who say “but ohh that isn’t op” but apprently can’t do simple mana count and math… because I even posted the math, yet people make it sound like you can cut it down to “Ohh just polymorph it”… well okay, so if I give you 1 polymorph to that combo and you get it after he cast it not once, but twice? yeh then your polymorph is worth nothing…

it’s the fact that the cost of the card is SO low compared to how insane it is considering you can get FOUR of the spells from having 2 cards in your deck (and if you get it from some other card you can even ramp it up to 6 times) for a card that can garantee you insane minions with 0 risk, 0 drawback and 0 rng. The entirely only rng it consist of is if you can draw it, but then again mage already got the best draw spells, and PLENTY of them, so they can easily muligan for it and stay alive

Then they got minions like Malacrass to give you one of the cards you (hopefully succesfully mulliganed for) and rabble bouncer if you strugle to draw what you wanted but again, if you combine it with khadgar + power of creation, well you got the strongest lategame combo you can get

almost full board with 6cost minions you can choose between which suits you best. So even if you fail on the MG conjourer then you can get the 2x6 cost minions etc or astromancer, since they always get a full hand

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All you need to do is to watch matches on HSreplay, or at least look at the deck lists people run. If they don’t get their turn 4-5 insta-win, which admittedly doesn’t happen very often but often enough to be annoying, they just taunt up behind rabble bouncers or vaults, play stuff like astromancer and CC the astromancer for an instant 2x7 drop + whatever astromancer’s battle cry brought in.

Conjurer mage doesn’t need much of plan B when they can execute their Plan A at a later stage in a match and still generate insane value in a single turn, even without MGs. And that’s where the problem comes in: If you don’t burst them down fast enough, you get steamrolled eventually because it’s always a disaster waiting to happen that you’re up against.

And it’s not like these decks have absolutely no removal options either, because for example crowd roaster exists, or the card that deals 4 with a battlecry if you have a big spell in your hand, which oftentimes these mages do, since power of creation costs 8…

And they also have the 2/2 that allows you to discover a spell if you have a dragon in hand, which oftentimes they do, because Kalecgos, twilight drake etc.

Now you can make the argument and say that some of these things aren’t consistent, and I’d agree, but if the most “reliable” way to win is to either be fortunate enough to have hard removal right when you need it, or have an oppent with poor draw so you can burst them down, then I’d say that just isn’t “good enough”. I’m pretty sure lots of folks are happy that Keleseth is gone, so did the game really need another deck where draw decides matchups instantly? Sorry, but I have my doubts about this.

Conjurer mage can generate so much value in such short time that control warriors have trouble keeping up in terms of removal cards, which is where the “just control the board” line of arguing doesn’t hold up in practice as much as people think it does, because it’s a simple matter of time until the mage can refill their board with power of creation + Khadgar, or simply astromancers. It’s not like all they have is MGs plus CC… How much hard removal can you run to be able to deal with 2-3 8/8 in a single turn? How much more hard removal than what control warriors have can you fit in your deck while still having a gameplan of your own, eh?

Literally the most “reliable” way to win is to burst them down with rogue (and better have a sap handy) while you use pray that they don’t roll out for example a 7/8 taunt too early, or discover a removal spell. You can win with token druids every now and then, but the problem always is that flooding the board allows them to play their bouncers early and for cheap, and since druid has no hard removal besides neutral cards (at least big gamer hunter can help every now and then) because naturalize is gone, you’re screwed once the mage can stabilize, which they are likely to do as well, because many of them already run decks teched against token druids, which also give carpet locks a lot of trouble.

If all these mages could do was to hope that they get their turn 4 win, nobody would consider these decks competitive in the first place.

I find it extremely weird how people get so tangled up in arguing about what to do when their opponent has the nut-draw, when the actual problem isn’t that it’s a “high roll deck” that either works or not, with nothing in between, but it’s like playing against a big-druid with oakheart, except the mage doesn’t even need to ramp, can execute their “combo” at least 4 times by default (6 if you count power of creation), doesn’t depend on a 1-of card like oakheart, is stronger in the offensive-department but can’t gain armour, and on top it also has the high roll potential to win on turn 4-5.

I don’t wanna smack talk anybody here, but let’s get real: If all you can contribute is “well, just put counters in your deck, duh” while conjurer mage is successfully played in high legend ranks where, you know, many of the “smart players” are, then maybe it’s just not as simple as some people like to make it seem, and maybe the negative reactions to their advice, which is based on assumptions about players who they know nothing about, aren’t entirely undeserved after all…

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I was genueily asking because i didnt know …

Also there are people here who know what they are doing. Belive me.

Not all of us (im mid rank and rising as well as others here thats why i contribute on stuff i know about) ofc are legend players. But some in here have the potential imo

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I certainly hope it didn’t come across as if I were adressing you wrt “smack talk”.

And to be fair, I don’t think people haven’t a clue around here, but when it comes to a combo that can happen as early as turn 4, and can be repeated several times during a match… Yeah, not to be rude to anybody, but I fail to see how it isn’t a problem, especially since there is a non-zero chance that the MG + CC combo, which atm ideally costs like 6 mana total when played without setting up on board is potentially going to be around for 2 years… turn 6 and 2 large dudes in a single move, I don’t think anybody needs a session in a think-tank to see how that’s wicked strong on its own.

Imo CC needs its mana cost increased by 1 point to make it less flexible in late-game, and eliminate the early high rolls as well. All things considered the spell has a very low opportunity cost to it already, so making it a bit less flexible seems fine to me. I’d hate to see mountain giant in the hall of fame, because it would also just kill the hand-lock archetype along with it, at least in standard, and that is a perspective I’m not so keen on.

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