A plea for openness


#1

Today I had a conversation about the forum that made me reflect upon my own behaviour as well as ‘our’ behaviour as a group.

I came to the conclusion that I think we could improve in the department of openness and tolerance towards contrary ideas. It’s easy to dismiss a lot of things as ranting and stuff, but sometimes actually trying to talk to the dudes might lead to a more productive outcome. Also sometimes the tone of a post betrays its content or intention.

I’m not calling out anyone and I absolutely include myself in this and I’m also not saying that any specific person should change any specific thing. It’s just that I’m thankful for having been given the opportunity to reflect upon myself and I’ve concluded that I’d like to try to be a bit more open. This thread’s intention is to give that same reflection impulse to others.

If any given person uses this to reflect and concludes that they don’t wanna change anything, it’s all good of course. Everyone needs to do what they think is right. In the end we all shape the climate in our community.

I wanna close with the words of two wise people that managed to express what I wanted to express here, but much better and much shorter:

“Be the change you wanna see in the world.”

“Appreciate the others. Even if they fail to appreciate you.”


#2

I try to be the person my dog thinks i am…

But honestly im always pro beeing openminded.

As a very extroverted person it just feels naturally and i would suggest people to see things from more as their own view.

But still im not gonna appreciate someobe who dont want to appreciate me.

Not gonna say thank you to someone who opposes me.

I dont mean in a discussion. Im happy to have a discussion with everyobe especially if they disagree with me. (I mean i know my own points of view allready so i want to see others)

Still im not gonna appreciate people who are sitting like a rock on their point of view and denying everyones else.

Im fine with letting them be if they choose to be and stay on the point they are but im not gonna appreciate those behaivours

Xoxo


#3

I was very careful to write “sometimes” instead of “everytime” :wink:

and with some people it’s worth to walk a mile in their shoes, even if it seemed like a waste of time before you did it.

not with all people though…


#4

I do to keep an open mind with some topics, however i tend to have a twisted mind where il be against the idea at the start and then later agreeing with the perspective, i have had times where i couldnt decide what to respond with so a pot of time i just look at posts and not say anything as i would be against a view but same time i fully understand it
Also i only really check forums on phone and i tend to miss spell a lot so i sometimes cant be bothered to type a storm only to redo everything cause i cant type


#5

This last year that I was away from Hearthstone was spent mostly reading, writing and debating. The central point of these activities is science applied to politics, philosophy, religion, social issues and many other things. You and others that have read stuff I wrote in the old forums can probably imagine how I write and conduct myself in those debates as my style and tools of communication didn’t change much.

I learned a couple of lessons in this last year, both kinda sad in the context of this post.

The first one is the vast majority of people are so unaware of their own biases and so deeply convinced their opinions are facts, that they are completely unable to even consider the arguments, counter-arguments or evidence against their own world view. Of everyone I know, I vouch for five people that are not like this. Everyone else is included in this vast majority.

The second is that in debates the person you are interacting with does not matter. You can safely assume that person will not change her mind. You can, however, assume that you are helping other people change their world view when they are “watching” the debate. Accepting this is, I’m afraid to inform, accepting that you are engaged in propaganda. Filthy word, I know, but the honest truth. Yes, every once in a while we will change someone’s mind but most of the times we are “only” changing the minds of the rest of the readers, which is actually a pretty good thing!

This said, I don’t mind at all that some of regulars bash some rants Sgt Donny “Bear” Donowitz style. In fact, when The Bear swings his baseball bat to support the “debaters” like myself a lot more people listen. I actually have statistics to back this up. If I write a “normal” pro-science article, around 150 people read it in the first 24 hours. If a loud mouth baseball bat swinging Bear supports what I wrote 2000 people read it in first 8 hours. Keep in mind what you wish to achieve and do adapt acordingly but don’t underestimate the power of The Bear. :slight_smile: Without him, we’re… less noticeable.


#7

I feel the wish to clarify my intention.

I feel that a certain group dynamic might be beginning to form, in which certain ideas that are contrary to the ideas of the group don’t get the same fair chance as ideas from within the group.

This is a huge simplification of course. I’m also not saying that this is a fact. It’s a feeling. Also I’m not talking about every thread.

So all I’m saying is, before typing a criticising or ridiculing answer, think about whether you’d still write the same thing if the poster was Toad or Vlad instead of nerfinator69.

If you still feel the same way about your post, by all means. If not, think about if you still wanna post it in the same phrasing.

There is obviously the argument that Toad and Vlad have built up a certain reliable reputation and nerfinator69 has 0 posts, but then we’re standing before the decision if respect and an open mind must be earned or is given automatically until forfeited.

I know where I stand in this decision and my intention was to encourage others to find out where they stand. Again, I’m not talking about any specific person and I absolutely don’t exclude myself.


#8

I definitely agree with this. The hearthstone community, over the last 4 years, has become one of the most toxic I’ve experienced, particularly in game when people add you to hurl the most unbelievable abuse at you, but I’ve also noticed it creeping in on here too.

I do try to be as open-minded as possible and like to think I try to answer most peoples posts as best as I can, but have been drawn into heated debates on here before now. With this in mind though, there are a few people who have posted on here recently that I have responded to, only to receive abuse back from the OP, simply because I didn’t agree with them, so it kinda goes both ways


#9

I find that it is much easier to ignore people that are not open to a civil discussion after my initial post. When people purposefully ignore decent arguments or just want to get in a shouting contest, there’s not much point in continuing with the thread as it just draws more attention to the one throwing a temper tantrum and has exactly zero chance of changing the mind of Mr. Hissy Fit.


#10

Thank you for bringing this post back, I’ve been a mess lately and I didn’t manage to address some things in this post because of that, latter on I forgot to.

This was something obvious from the op, I often disagree with certain “facts”, and I feel a reason for which I get heated up more than I’d like to, I’m often ignored when writing some unpopular opinion, of course there are people like you and Ixnay that debate those disagreements but more often than not I’m talking to the walls.

I wonder if I give others this feeling, I do ignore the subjects that I have no interest in, but I’m not sure if that makes someone feel particularly ignored, would that be justified? (kinda rhetorical here)

I think my actual true strong point in debates and disagreements is that I try to help and formulate arguments for my friends/relatives/classmates/etc when they seem to be unable to do so themselves or be sufficient in it, with two friends in particular, as an example, I’m both pro and con abortion in our arguments :slight_smile: which amuses me, and often in class our teacher asks me questions she should address to the side I picked and I go “No, my stance is actually opposite to what I said until now, but we have to consider this too”
What frightens me is that I know how deceiving one’s self can be and I sometimes find myself afraid that I’m a killer in the conversations that I have without ever knowing

Ahhh, controversy