Zephrys the Great fix

I would personally change the text to say ‘If you started the game with no duplicates in your deck’ at the moment he is shoved into most decks even those running 2 copies of many things. Murloc Pala is the worst abuser of this as they are able to clear their deck so quick. Highlander decks are restricted in how you can build them, I dont think people that havent restricted their deckbuilding should be able to get the value from this card.

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yeah, blizzard should do what therampager mentioned. I also think this will not solve the problem. Zephrix should not be printed at all. But i am looking forward for the 30 card zephrix brawl.

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You know what, I would not mind this change. I don’t think the other Highlander cards need to follow the same trend. But Zephrys is exceptionally powerful. So much so that he makes Highlander decks with the other classes, with no Highlander cards of their own, viable. Highlander Warlock being a prime example.

Plus things like Warrior’s bombs and such would not counter Zephrys in that case. :stuck_out_tongue:

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exactly what I think.
At this point I hope they ban Zephrys anyway, because it’s a card that computer plays, not you, computer calculate a lethal for you. wow

Zephrys is the worst card i ever seen in 20 years of card games
Now After I played last month with 4 tier 1-2 lists (3 in standard and 1 in wild) and after 2 legend this month, I stopped to play, cause of Zephrys,

It’s very frustrating loose by random and computer decisions, what the hell, this is sooooooo bad!

See you at next rotation, maybe, if I don’t find new better games. See you. Also, just to consider this, heartstone metagame in general is very bad, and decks are worse and worse every new expansion, I don’t know how blizzard developers can go worse and worse at infinite, without limit.

Edit: I returned to play and hit legend, but still I think Zephrys is bad!

I can only agree on this. Who the hell came up with the idea making it ? Now put him/her against a wall and Zeph him away.

Zephrys ruins 90% of the fun!
Please, remove it!

Stupid that I cannot post links to Blizzards actual website but a simple google search of Blizzard Hearthstone Class Identity will yield the result.
[
Class Identity, Hall of Fame, and New Cards - Blizzard News

Then they go print Zephyrs which allows a class to circumvent exactly what they say the class weaknesses are… RIDICULOUS…at least be consistent Blizzard then as a Hunter who pulls Healing Touch from Zephyrs, or a Warlock who pulls Savage Roar/Bloodlust.

After all Zephyrs can turn the tide of a game quite easily when he gives access to cards which are NOT designed to be available to a certain class, There is a reason a Hunter cannot access Healing Touch same as there is reasons why Warlock does not have Savage Roar or Bloodlust.

I think we are slowly approaching an era where all classes will have access to all cards including class cards via a discover mechanic or even being able to just play them.

Imo the new tombs of terrors probably shows the future of HS with the addition of Hybrid classes (Watch this space…)

How does that disputes, my statement that this is a trendy buzzword?

No, not rly, Zeph gives options, probably in most cases it’s used to fetch a 3 mana, gib 1 mana cristal.

Aint gonna dispute point by point your rant.

Zeph doesn’t go against class identity. Say rogues have no AOE. Rogues have so many ways to get an AOE, that 1 more or less, makes no difference.

The lock example is also a bad one. If he didnt pool a savage or bloodlust, he stll stays with a full board, and could have pulled a number of other cards to secure his win.

TLDR - Zeph is fun and okay in terms of balance card, and whatever madeup reasons ppl come with (those who dislike fund and like being constipated) it aint gonna be changed, so save your energy

are you a fanboy?
no logic in any point you made @Azra

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Says the person that instead of counter arguing throws an ad hominem. If you are going to call for logic, at the very least give the example and argument.

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Even if this is the case if Blizzards description of some classes is that Big Minions is part of their weakness,s surely they should not have access to cards such as Shadow Word Death, Deadly Shot.

I was not disputing that Class Identity is a buzzword, But the fact still remains that Blizzard has posted an intentional class direction and design for each one.

Look at this description of Paladins.

Paladin: Paladins are great champions who support their minions with buffs, healing, and divine shields; however, they are not afraid to get their hands dirty when the time comes. They are methodical, controlling the battlefield through debuffs and focused attacks instead of destructive spells. Strength and persistence are the keys to a Paladin’s victory.

*** Strengths : Minion swarms, minion buffs and debuffs, healing, Divine Shield, Secrets**
*** Limitations: Cost reduction**
*** Weaknesses : Direct damage spells, destroying big minions** (This means spells like Pyroblast and Shadow Word Death should not be available)

Notice the so called Weakness, So why give paladin indirect access to spells such as Shadow Word Death via Zephyrs. Or Pyroblast (Which seems to be a common theme in quite a few Zephyrs decks,s consistently deal chip damage and then use Zephyrs to pull Pyroblast to finish your opponent off next turn with Pyro.

Again both of these points contradict what the paladin class design was meant to be, If you read the others you will find a lot of contrdictions on where Zephyrs can be made to circumvent this design.

They need to change Zephyrs to work in conjunction with their so called Class Identity otherwise why say Board Clear is a weakness for a rogue when they can pull Flamestrike or Mass Hysteria from Zephyrs.

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No. They don’t. Saying that classes suddenly don’t have their weaknesses solely because of Zephrys is a big stretch and dumb to say the least. If Zephrys only gave cards of players’ own class he would be garbage and completely destroys any point of playing him.

How many Rogues play Zephrys?

Speaking about Rogue; do you also complain about Rogue getting good taunt minions, wave clears or healing spells by generating cards from other classes even when the lack of those are supposed to be Rogues’ weaknesses? You could argue it’s random. But it happens often enough and, according to your logic, should never EVER happen.

If you’re fine with that; why is generating cards from other classes as Rogue okay but not for other classes once via Zephrys with a big deck building restriction?

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This is quite a good point, actually. I find this thieve theme in Rogue quite interesting, even if I don’t play it myself, but it directly contradicts the supposed class identity thing. Except that it really doesn’t. Most of the card generation is random and it fits the theme.

Complaining about Zephrys forgets one little detail: he is conditional. Not every deck and every class can fit him in a deck and go full OP.

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Getting involved…personally don’t have a problem with zeph. He’s conditional and can’t provide a lethal unless you’ve already been outplayed don’t play him myself (though I give him a whirl) but I do think he helps players who are new to the game and don’t have cards providing them with answers they don’t have cards for
I can see why he’s annoying though …perhaps slightly undervalued but not massively.
May I say one thing though…class identity is not now, never was and never will be a ‘buzzword’. Class identity is hugely important as it allows you to predict possible interactions with your opponent no matter what archetype they play with a class. Without it the whole game would be a ridiculous clown fiesta of randomised moves and minions that couldn’t be predicted removing the strategy element completely (always shaky at best), which given how many complaints I’ve seen in all the forums about too much rng already people don’t want…
Zeph isn’t close to game breaking but don’t trot out phrases like buzzword to back your side of an argument.
Apologies but this annoyed me. Rant over.

I’d like to take this moment to reiterate how much I wish Blizzard would remove Sacrificial Pact from Zephyrs’ discover/wish pool.

Notice, that those are general guidlines

Look, i get your point, i rly do. Yet the reasonng behind it is hollow.

TLDR - in your head, Zeph has no place in the game, because of the reasoning you provide. You dislike what it does, and that clashes with reality, that says that devs and majority of players disagree. Then you asume that someone needs to do something to change things so you like em. Well - nope :slight_smile: you aint entitled to that. Take care

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Just a blind can’t see how is broken this card, not fun, not balanced. ruins lot of potential fun decks that are countered by a single card. (one example, jaraxxus)

top lists from hsreplay, search for best % we have:

  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • shaman
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • shaman
  • hunter
  • paladin (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • paladin
  • paladin
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)
  • hunter (zephrys)

tier 1 lists

  • hunter (zephris)
  • hunter (zephris)
  • shaman murloc
  • paladin murloc

yeah murlocs are neutral too, still not identity, remaining in theme

meta murloc / zephrys, good job blizzard, and great fantasy
continue to make games for kids and for money, and not good games since 10 years

this list is more like

  • highlander hunter (zephrys)
  • murloc shaman
  • secret hunter (zephrys)
  • quest hunter
  • highlander paladin (zephrys)
  • quest paladin
  • mech paladin

you can’t count all versions of an archetype as individual decks. for example the best 5 decks in that list are all highlander hunters that mostly differ in a couple of tech cards. the biggest differences between those decks are switching a baited arrow for a savannah highmane or a spellbreaker for a houndmaster.

according to hsreplay zephrys is run in a third of all decks, but it doesn’t look oppressive winrate-wise.

but obviously it’s not fun to lose against (especially with jaraxxus). however, in my opinion this is what HS has become. a rarely-interactive puzzle game that’s fun if you win and mostly feels atrocious if you lose. so zephrys fits right in there :smiley:

edit: this post was written before the inclusion of the tier 1 overview in the quoted post

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yeah, also paladins are not much good, a part murlocs.
anyway, a game where the most important thing is pay and win (yes we speak about some % more, not believe), yeah, you buy legendaries, and zephrys and win! Or play murlocs and win! wow

Nice game! And we are not speaking about the random fest all the time!

soooo muucchh funnn!!!

if it’s just about winning, you don’t need to pay anything. virtually every meta features at least one cheap tier 1 deck (like murloc shaman now). with the ~75 free packs every expansion for active players and the option to disenchant unused cards, those should be easily obtainable every meta.

so pay to win is a myth in hearthstone.

however, it’s rarely just about winning. variety surely plays a part in the fun and that’s a lot harder to do on the cheap. not impossible surely because we have non-paying players here and they seem to be able to play whatever they want.

I guess the key lies in playing regularly for quite a while and managing your resources cleverly.

to sum up: in terms of generosity HS is far behind the most generous card game(s) out there, but it has become much more generous since 2016 when I started playing.