Today I feel conflicted


#3

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
You didn’t notice that they were actually cheaper than previous Viper’s Skins on release date !!!
SERIOUSLY ???
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


#4

Indeed, reset will cause so many troubles…
I mean, not real problems, just thinking about it, it’s a problem itself.

Smurfing is still the best option. Or it has been, since there are so many smurfs everywhere. Or boosted players, or silver players that got carried in season 1 to Master (HL queue with 2 ppl with no rank or MMR restriction, awsome) and stayed there because rank decay is not MMR decay.
That’s just brilliant.

But yeah, we really don’t know what MMR is, so please can you enlight us? What can get worst if they reset MMR?


#5

Most smurfs are made because main accounts get banned or have que times of forever though.

I think the MMR decays too though, most of these carried players survive because they dont have to play more than 30 or so games a season no matter what to avoid decay and with that number of games wont drop in rank either in master and just place there by default the next season.

Also the decay doesnt set in if you just play your placements at the end of the season.

Matchmaking rating, telling relative skill of a player on the ladder which is flawed in a team based game where it drops and goes up by qins and losses as the amount of games to see individual effect is enormous

For example GM players who climb to gm from bronze do it usually with 70-85% wr, some games just are not in your control.

Basically 2-3 games in 10 are what you contribute to and if you are only slightly misplaced like a Mid Gold player in high Silver, your effect will be more like 1 in 10/20 games and it will take hundreds to climb that little bit.

Took me personally 200 games as a former Gold 3 player to climb from Silver 2 back to Gold after the reset season where we had 3 resets of placements and it placed me to Silver after being in Gold for 3 seasons with a 50% winrate.

3 seasons of complete rainbow games, instead of 1 bronze player in midst of 4 golds you will find 2 bronzes and 2 Diamonds with a GM and the enemy team will have the same setup, only the best of the best will find their place fast enough as they play a ton and dont face others of their true rank as often while lower ranks of Bronze-Gold will be in a hurricane of rainbows for 400 games minimum, imagine the player that can only play a 100 games a season…

The end result would be the same situation we are now in anyway, some think they belong higher but cant climb so they blame the system, the best outlier example would be one of the posters here who says he “plays like a GM” but is stuck in Bronze for over a 1000 games, so he is just trying to make a new ranked point system instead of improving.

Everyone has a bit of bias in their evaluation and its way harder to notice your own mistakes than it is to notice your teammates, thats why looking at your replays is one of the best ways to improve.

Sorry for the long story that had no dragons in it btw.

I made my break from Gold to Diamond after i stopped playing my main, Nazeebo as i didnt have that much of impact on him and learnt to play Samuro and started to stomp my way through the ranks. Overall making yiur roster better will usually help climbing.


#6

Basically everything people are already complaining about, times a hundred or so.

The reason people ask about MMR reset seems to be that they feel they’re matched with players that aren’t of their skill level. However, an MMR reset would only makes this worse , as a reset would mean there’s nothing to base matchings on. Pairings would be completely random, GM’s matching with Silvers, Bronzes fighting Diamonds, rainbow teams of five different ranks and everything in between.

The whole theory of ‘MMR Reset’ fixing anything is flawed from the start, as it somehow requires MMR to be both completely broken (since it’s so bad that it requires a reset) and fully functional at the same time (otherwise it can’t solve things post-reset). That’s nonsense.

There’s roughly two possibilities:
-The MMR system is indeed broken and people do get stuck in ranks: MMR reset wouldn’t change anything about this. It would only randomize peoples ranks, after which you get the exact same problem as you had previously. People would still be stuck in their ranks, only now they’re stuck with a bunch of random people that may or may not belong there either.

-The MMR system does actually let you properly advance through ranks (if you are skilled enough), so after a MMR Reset everyone would (eventually) nicely sort into the rank they deserve. But if the MMR system is already functioning, you don’t need a reset anyway, you can just wait until people are sorted to their proper ranks. in that case resetting only means undoing every bit of progress towards proper sorting, making it take even longer until people are where they belong.

The MMR system may or may not need improvements, but MMR Reset definitely isn’t the solution people make it out to be.


#7

And many others are made because GM can train skills even at low GM/Master. Or boosted accounts from preseason and no valid solution until now (but yeah more accounts mean more players, even if they are fake).

There is no evidence that the rank decay is connected to MMR decay since official communication always talked about rank and never of MMR. To be honest, I would be glad if someone finds out that MMR and rank are directly connected, since I have no evidence of this, either.
Rank decay is awsome, only it should be MMR decay, since rank is a pure number based on the total population of players while MMR as a pure number can be considered a better evaluation of one player’s skill. They wanted to make MMR visible, no news about this?

What happens to the rank if I don’t play my placements?
But more important, what happens to my MMR? I hope it decays, but I’m afraid nothing happens.

If anyone could read and understand this, I think the game experience could be highly improved. Like, it’s not possible to win every game, right?

The price you pay for covering your eyes.
When Masters and GMs tell you “Hey broh, we have some problems here in ranked, nothing big but can you just take a look” and the answer is “Well, yeah, everything is fine and it will be fixed by himself”, there is the consequence.
Since the actual MMR-based player population is a mess, because of past issues, we all appreciate the efforts in fixing the situation, but efforts is not enough and results is what we need. Dragging on the ranked-play problems through the seasons is making and will make no good.

But yeah, I guess this has much less impact on the future games, since high skilled players left, anyone can climb and will be happy…

The point is not “gneee i’m silver but my mom told me i’m special and master so the problem is the system”.
The point is to find the proper “rank” in which anyone can play having fun. People of similar MMR should share similar skills, and I mainly mean knowledge of how to play the game.
At some ranks, things like fighting under talent/before 10, losing soak to fight mid lane, doing camps during objectives or having artanis and leoric in the same composition are very hard to explain. And I’m talking about high diamond-low master level.
People with same MMR should play together, but as we noticed MMR grows and stops swinging after maybe 300-400 games (?) . What happens if a smurf plays few games with GMs farming MMR in QM for seeding, and then jumps into HL? In the past, this happened and too many examples still live on.

Again, I don’t blame actual management, the current situation comes from the past where everything was so confused… HL in duoQ with no rank/MMR restrictions… some talents were selected only if you had a proper player level, so you could win or lose not because your skill/knowledge/replay analysis but because of the player level…
The actual system has many watchdogs to sort out those situation, but there is still something that can’t be fixed just waiting time. I guess we will have to accept the current situation, but let me dream of a reset that can bring so much good at a little cost.


#8

“Diamond, Master, and Grand Master Hero League players who have placed in the current season but haven’t completed any games in a while will have both their Ranked Points and their MMRs slowly adjusted downward to compensate. This should help Hero League players who may need a few games to shake off the rust and get back into fighting shape after taking a lengthy break from ranked play.”

Thats from hots official blog when they introduced the decay. So it is officially said.

Frozen in time as far as we know.

Usually around 20% of the game a troll or a drunk guy or a dc hits your team and the probability of winning that game is so tiny that it would be called a miracle.

One game my teammate keot flaming guldan, i said “hes a bot” and he responded “i know!”

He thought i meant bot lane, we won the game and at that point he noticed it was an AI on our team, we got a good laugh. Miracles happen.

But some games just go wrong in the draft or someones lucky placement or a smurf will murder absolutely everyone.

The amount of lucky placements of the trophy players who play the 30 games a season and drop is high and there isnt much we can do really at this point, maybe in the future they place the trophies by how many games you play instead of rank by itself and it will be cured…

A flawed system that makes it possible to climb over a ton of games and has a potential of fixing itself is better than a :poop: tornado for multiple seasons that would just end up like it was before, imagine a gold player getting really lucky after a reset, getting carried to masters by GMs on his team or bronze players on the enemy team and then just playing to avoid decay again…

This pretty much, most games are fun IMO but the bad ones just stick so hard that its hard to see anything else sometimes… Once i got a 13 loss streak after getting tilted and tired and good lord it was frustrating.

Multiple skillsets in the game also might make look a godlike mechanical player look like a bronzie when they dont know how to shotcall.

But i still cant explain the Fenix who didnt know how to stutterstep in Diamond,if i remember right he was one of the 30 games a season folks though.

From my climb, Silvers have no idea how to play the map and miss alot of skillshots and stuff, golds have learnt to hit things but dont know where the minimap is, Plats noticed the map in the bottom right but striggle with its use, and Diamond everything is decent but mistakes are made as players arent consistent in their plays.

Masters+ i cant really talk for outside the streams i have seen, seems like whoever gets the lucky placement guy tends to lose.

_Edit: Also as far as anyone has seen there is nothing that would stop the MMR from moving and even if it would get stuck you could climb the ladder. _

MMR with rank works like an anchor, your Rank is a ship, your ship can move and it will drag your MMR with it and it is possible to get away from the anchor.

_ Lets say your MMR was stuck at corresponding value of Gold 5 and you climbed to Plat 5, the next time you would play the placements it would place you at Gold 5 because the only thing that the placements do now is place your rank to the corresponding MMR value but no farther than 5 tiers of your previous seasons rank._

Maximum seed is now Gold 5 to prevent smurfs placing to Diamond by stomping beginner que in QM.

Maybe if the reset was an optional choice and/or only hit players who played less than 40? games a season per active season on average and only in Plat and above?

Then the resetted players would start in the Gold 5 or seeded from 30 games starting in Gold 5.

Some players also put too much qeight on their rank, thinking like its a judgement on their character, there is absolutely nothing wrong in being a gold player.

If everyone was a GM, nobody would be and not everyone can.

No dragons this time either.

Edit: these are the conversations that i actually visit the forums for, ones that dont devolve into namecalling and actually inform players of the avaiable information and exhange opinions and viewpoints.


#9

I am honestly not surprised by how badly people understand the MMR Reset.

Each season there is a so called soft reset but not a hard reset.
So I’ll explain why this is a bad thing and why it doesn’t work.

Imagine MMR being the price of your electricity, the bill comes as usual and you pay it, that’s your daily gaming.

MMR placement is the current rate of the electricity price, lets say you pay 100$ per season.
The cost of transfer of the energy will be the MMR decay.
Seasonal costs aren’t really accounted for right now due to soft reset.
That means your energy bill every 3 or so months pretty much stays at the same level and price, soft reset means the increase in price is barely noticeable, however the transfer price still increases. What does that mean in gaming ?
Players come and go, some players don’t play half a season others play more than usually for reasons (breaks, vacation holidays days off alignment)

This means the MMR decays is minimal but the changes are RAPID in general in every direction.

In terms of paying the bill, the pricing is usually regulated by law or an office of price regulations (some european countries have those).
Every year they regulate the need to up the price. Normally people don’t want that because in some countries the price of energy is very high already. Soft MMR reset means in this case that the increase of price will be very small, which means the MMR will be adjusted to the current trends, not the current skill of the players. Basically they simply level it to 30% down from 70% growth (just an example).

In terms of paying the bills it means that users will pay 100$ instead of 140$.
From a financial perspective it looks great, but in reality it means that someone else has to pay the difference, usually the firms, companies, and industries pay the bigger bill difference and get back that money by increasing the prices of their goods or services.

The best solution would be to constantly and continuously increase the yearly rate by 5% instead of 40% per year.
This would lower the cost difference of energy transfer every year at a better rate than suddenly needing to hit every single power user by 100% price increase (up from 100$ to 200$ per season).
If you slowly increase the price it won’t be such a burden in the long run because even employers would steadily increase the paychecks.

this is what Blizzard is avoiding, they don’t want to adjust the MMR by resetting it for everyone, they want to feed their top tier players in ranked games and have the lower ranks pay the toll by never leaving their ranks.

An MMR Reset in a hard way would force everyone to pay the same amount of effort to get to the rank they should be in. Unfortunately only the most hardcore players paid by commercialized companies get to do that because they are being paid to play the game and not work, and by doing so they advertise their companies and products.

This is a form of discrimination but hard to point out.

A hard reset would force everyone to always start from scratch, skilled players will quickly get back to their ranks while casual players would be on the lower end.

That is, if Blizzard had the balls to do this. Which they don’t have because of outcry like above this post. People don’t understand MMR so they complain about hard MMR Reset, even if that would give them a better ranking if they worked hard.

Now I say all this but how does current MMR system affect me ?

I’m a Gold 1 player, I’m a casual, but I could do better if I really had the time and didn’t have to actually work for my bread.

Unfortunately, the current system places me in Gold tier and after placement I get matched with bronze 1 and silver 3 players, I never had the pleasure of playing with anyone else on Gold tier, as such I am constantly dropped into bronze tier because I can’t carry the team every single time no matter how good I can be, it’s just impossible.

From some US data you can check with google it shows that GOLD tier is very unpopulated, which means playing with or against GOLD tier players is nearly impossible. For the past year I have been playing on two accounts, this one(my main) and another (ALT).
My alt account still had me in gold tier until last season, there I was dropped into silver and then I just couldn’t get out anymore, this is because my accumulated MMR on that account started to be leveled down to the “standard” tier.
That means similar players to me either stopped playing or managed to increase their ranks (good for them) but a fairly casual player like me couldn’t play on the level anymore. So my MMR got soft reset to match me with someone at all (silver 4) and this season I got dumped at placement to silver 1 (down from gold 2 at placement)

If MMR hard reset was happening every season, there wouldn’t be a problem because everyone would quickly get to their respective tiers.

But thanks to people without an ounce of knowledge about economics, imagination or even understanding how rankings work, whine about it, Blizzard has no balls to do a hard reset.

I hope thanks to this example you understand why MMR got us screwed.
Thanks to everyone who keeps whining about how bad it would be.
Thanks for all the replies.

Please learn to read with understanding, I did not say the previous viper skins were 1,6k.
It states there that skins that were for 1,6k are now 1,8k
Is this confusing ? Ok I’ll explain.
NOT ALL SKINS WERE 2.4k during previous viper series. Now we have (as I have taken a good look at this) skins for 2,4k 1,8k, 1,6k and 1,2k of the same series.
The difference is that some of those skins are old, uglier than expected and some were cheap (1,6K for legendaries) and were unpopular.

I still find teh pricing of 1,6k for legendaries extremely expensive because pretty much every single skin that comes out with an event is legendary tier (skins that come out with map packs or non seasonal events can also get either pricey or cheap down to 600 shards).

So yeah. Activision told Blizzard to milk the hell out of players.

If you think about it, Overwatch players are fine because they PAID for a game and only get boxes as they level up, they don’t give a damn because since they bought a game they are entitled to heroes showing up there for free. In HOTS we have to buy the heroes to get them because we pretty much have to pay for everything in this game, because it’s free to play.

Eventually every player gets to the point of being able to get all the heroes for gold or gems they get every 150 levels, but realistically players in HotS spend a LOAD of time playing this game, and still spending on it.

Technically I spent on this game 49 eu, I bought some skins and a few mounts.
I paid similar money for Overwatch and I don’t need to spend a single penny on it anymore, I get heroes for free and I get skins every so often in lootboxes.

The gains outweigh the cost for me in that game but in HotS the costs outweigh the gains.

I only recently started enjoying this game more when Orphea came around, a new character from the Nexus and I was legit happy because it was fresh.
Then Blizzard started doing their piggy bank rides and I just started losing heart for this game again.

I liked this game, I really enjoyed it, but the DEVELOPER decided to destroy their own creation.

BTW, I prefer Horde for their cool mounts (I play only Draenei in WoW but if they were Horde I would not be in alliance) but if they kill off Jaina, I am closing my account for good.


#10

Your analogy of MMR was really bad and left me wondering what your point was so ill have to skip responding to it, sorry :confused:

Just explain what you think without an analogy.

From where? Official data shows so far that Gokd is actually one of the largest in population.

Nobody would get quickly to their respective tiers, it would take hundreds of games of fiesta worse than now.

Gold 1 actually puts you in the top 32%~

They actually dont do any kind of resets, soft or hard between seasons.

If youre not talking about resetting your rank to your MMR which may deviate from eachother between seasons.

And you were proba ly talking in your analogy about the MMR of the general population getting higher and your rank getting lower because of that as its tied to the MMR, when others go up next to you, yours is perceived to drop.

But the MMR as far as we know is relative to the skill of the playerbase.

Also there is no MMR decay below Diamond rank.


#11

If you still enjoy some blizzard games you could still play them, but I wouldn’t financially support them any more. After all, for something like HotS if you play it then they need to maintain the server capacity for you, if you leave it can justify downsizing.

Realistically an individuals impact on this would be near negligible, but it’s more attitudes amongst groups of people that would have more impact.


#12

Answer me first this:
How do you know it would take hundreds of games fiesta to get to the rank you should be in ?
It was NEVER tested or done (I mean the hard reset).

Gold being fairly well populated ? you joking me.

Actually there is MMR decay on all ranks, it might not be intentional or a bug but there is, people after placements when they got up earlier were dropped far below they initial rank from previous season.

MMR simply doesn’t work on a user level as was intended because if it was people that actually worked hard during games would score points even after losing a game and possibly even grow ranks, instead, no matter how hard you worked for, you lose because your team is fertilizer so you lose ranks no matter how much effort you poured into the game and you keep getting matched with those kinds of players.

This is why I simply stopped playing, uninstalled all games from blizzard and uninstalled battlenet.

Not gonna respond to anything else from here on out.


#13

It already takes hundreds of games to find your place and a fiesta games of all ranks in the same games of a reset would have the same stiuation but worse at hand.

We have a rank distribution vhart published by Blizzard, google “hots rank distribution”

Gold is the second biggest rank in population.

Not sure if its about seeding and reseeding in the previous seasons, i have no data on this and neither do you, i have always placed in the same rank or maybe 1 tier away from it.

Like stated before it is flawed in a team game but after a mass of games you will have an effect on n the winrate getting you up or down.

Kind useless, for conversation to post this response then even dont you think?


#14

I think MMR reset is the ultimate solution and the best, The actual Sytem is broken and a mess and it needs to be reseted because it is obvious that this system is useless and unfair and dont let you climb . But dev team only looks at the top and dont care about bottom, lots of good players are stuck in lower league because got matched with (some) unskilled casual players… Besides MMR reset Blizzard need to put competitive mode more strict , let team league for casuals … and LET Hero league only for does who wanna climb and play hard… not for scrubs.

For example you can only go Hero League if you Master 5 heros and have at least 300 QM or Unranked. Honestly im so desesperated for average quality teammates that i would pay for playing hero league to have if they garantee to me that they know basics of game because 90% of people who play ranked (Bronze / Silver / Gold ) dont know the diference between Bruiser and Tank.´

And Once for all make clear how the MMR is calculated should be a mesure as well… to make things clear to everyone. not some random numbers.


#15

This

And I’m a casual player here, so don’t misunderstand me, I know exactly where is my place, and I don’t want to go in HL/TL because I could mess with other players who actually want to climb. I just don’t want to ruin other players games.

TL and HL should be more restrictive to access to AND to stand in.
Let say you need to play 1 game in HL and TL each day to be allowed to keep your rank (with an emergencie protocol available twice a month) and if you cannot, you loose 1 rank a day…:thinking:


#16

That is a little bit too strict though. Maybe it should be 7 games a week as some people have work and families and if that is not filled, then you lose a tier or something.

Basically same but you could play on the weekend or one day more and not have to log every day.

Right now the rank decay allows people to play 1 game every 20 days to keep decay off in Diamond for example,so people can just play 20 games a season and keep their Diamond rank.

Also the purpose of decay is kinda dumb, what if the player plays 10 games a day in UD? Its not like their skill is deteriorating so is there a point to decay their rank and MMR?


#17

Seems fair enough :wink:

Not enough strict, IMO.

Yeah, it’s weird… but maybe people don’t feel the same pressure while playing UD than HL/TL where one is really able to loose rank…?


#18

It really isnt.

Well nobody really takes TL or ranks there that seriously as they have always been messed up, i play as relaxed anywhere but QM more so as i just play my favourite heroes or practice others so its not a competition really.

Main goal is not to feed and trying to win, if i wanted to tryhard QM i would just que with Samuro every game but whats the point?

TL just became QM with draft because there is no LVL 5 restriction on heroes, no pick order so theres a bigger chance of getting to play whatever you want, you can solo que in TL now and even a 50% XP bonus so you get loot and levels faster.

I placed Diamond 2 (where i didnt belong) in TL when i was Gold 3(for a good reason) in HL and after i climbed to Diamond in HL 2 seasons later, i placed Plat 3(where i now dont belong) in TL, that is a joke of a rank if i have ever seen one.

Edit: Also i dont really play TL that much outside of warmup games for HL, not seeking to climb, so far 11-8 i think this season there.


#19

Jesus…this topic never stop…i swear our human race is.most sh* t in whole Universal!!

ENOUGH!!..
Ranked points would boosted or increased
Anyway…
There is no many options left.like my suggestions.
Merget Hl <-> TL bla…bla…bla…only bullsh*ts…only for short queue is cross servers with US…
An Visuon if was so.smart to now from 4 years…to now you should suggested better ideas…thats is…only with empty words…the game would not become better…need ideas wich are with almost without problems( if even exist such)…
And what Vision didnt understand about these “Survival.lvls”…is less deaths means these 20 achievements wich assists alot for 1 won game. Do you think about that in past time.ot to now?!:slight_smile:


#20

Your suggestion is as much of an option as drinking pepsi is an option.

I just have in this thread but you seem to have an problem with reading comprehension.

Also to critisize a bad idea doesnt require for the critic to have a better one, as it stands the current system is flawed but it enables climbing and ranks have clear skill distributions between them so obviously something is working.

Saying that the critic has to have a better idea to critisize yours is an argument from ignorance.


#21

Indeed that we need…when we are thirsty and buy second most.seller.dring in our world…
Is nice…and is re suggested again this old dring or like my old ideas…


#22

Drinking pepsi is herecy, begone sinner!

Also Diet coke is more popular than pepsi and the second most sold.

Coca cola has the #1 and #2 place.

I dont drink any sodas anymore though, they just make people feel bloated and tired all day because of the sugarbomb.

Also, statistics are still a faulty meter to determine players skill. It is known.

Your stats will be as dependant on your team as the probablility of winning a game is.