I don’t disagree with that, but we are talking about why some people are unhappy with support at the moment, of which there has been multiple reasons presented across these forums.
the most common complaint among players is counters and meta perceptions and then it’s the impact you have as a single player in a team game.
and the ones who complain the most about impact from their role are supports because they are too focused on healbotting, because their entire value is based off of other teammates success to farm the other team for them.
Once again I disagree with this as the majority of supports I have run into know how to play their character and therefore know there is more to their character than just spamming heals. But I’m checking out of this as we are going around in circles at this point and since its entirely down to opinions/personal experience and not facts its a bit of a waste of time.
so what do you think the vast amount of support players complain about? why do you think people rarely qeues as support?
that’s basically every discussion you will have with most people.
people are not fact machines.
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That’s just it though, your success as a support player heavily relies on the rest of your team to secure a victory. If you have a Widow that never misses, or a flanking DF that can pick 2 or 3 enemies per dive or shot, it’s an easy win, might even argue a solo-carry, but you can’t do much as a support that will guarantee you a win.
Yes, it boils down to how you play your support; but if you as Zen discord a Pharah or a threat and your team doesn’t attack it, it’s pointless. Power boosting a dps that can’t hit is useless, playing as Lucio when your team can’t stick together is useless. When you pick Moira and heal but also dps and get picks, your team complains and plays worse because you’re dps’ing.
The role is too heavily dependent on the rest of the team that you absolutely can’t help but having to rely on them. I’ve seen tanks and some dps solo carry teams a lot and it’s frankly quite irritating.
depends on the support, i can pick off players as lucio quite easily, he has a kill combo outside of just booping people you know.
hell just popping valk and killing people works with mercy, it just requires you to land your shots, i killed 3 to win a clutch round solo as the last player on a KOTH map as valk mercy.
or you know just play kiriko as a flanker and then pop back to a teammate when it gets dicey or to help them survive is a thing too.
like you can definitly be super aggressive on supports to get kills because the more offensive you are being the more defensive the enemy has to be to not die to you.
just look at baptiste for example, he’s basically a better soldier76, he can jump to high ground, have an instant heal on a button, throw out lamp that makes him impossible to kill and have a window that let’s him one-shot enemies which is far more deadly than a tac-visor all on its own.
like sure you can play support but if your team is absolute el garbo why should you help them when they are just draining important resources and not actually doing anything and are being suicidal?
the only reason why i would do it is because they serve as a good distraction from me and that’s it so i can go uninterrupted and makes it easier for me to kill.
and also funny that you say a widow that don’t miss or a doomfist that picks off enemies, how many times is that even a thing? in most games you really don’t have to worry about that.
i’d say the biggest worry if your team is el garbo is going up against a genji or a reaper because they have no idea how to deal with them, but your gucci if you can deal with them and keep killing stuff.
You make good points except I Valk for a full team damage boost to try and be beneficial rather than fly to maybe get a pick or two, and if I do Valk to get on point and try to solo; it’s damn near impossible given that my shots deal 20 damage per shot and the health regen you get is not nearly enough to keep you alive unless the enemy team misses at least 60% of their shots.
You can be aggressive, and you can save a game but your shots at it are far and sparse in between.
I’ve had straight games where my team couldn’t deal with Widows, Genjis, Reapers or Pharahs… and we’ve had 2 hit-scans for them. I do what I can to counter them but there’s literally so little you can do as a support. In the time it takes to kill a Genji or try to down a Pharah, half of my team would prolly be dead, crying or generally whining from the “lack of heals” when they refuse to even care for the supports.
well mercy is the least carryable support in the game so i get that, next to brig i’d say.
but they do make other characters a lot more playable, both of them are sort of like pocket supports to a large degree that can make plays but it’s kinda reliant on their team.
for mercy it’s her ability to fly and for brig it’s simply damage output that they need their teammates.
and as for all characters that can headshot, you have to take that into consideration because you’re actually ment to headshot with them.
so let’s take mercys pistol as an example, it’s a projectile weapon that has zero fall off with the capability to headshot 40 damage per shot and can shoot 5 shots per second.
that’s 200 exactly if you would land all of them, so with a possible 200 dps, it’s nothing to sneeze at.
it’s just very unlikely that you will land all of them especially from range, but mercy has a knack of following someone else on her team and usually it’s easier to land more shots with projectiles the closer you are to a point, and if you jump in with somebody else it will make things a whole lot easier because the enemy probably has to run away which makes them more predictable to shoot or if nothing else you’re not seen as the threat so they will try and dodge the other guy but not you.
now you have a gameplan with mercy and really you don’t have to deal all of the damage, but you can certainly help a lot more in finishing them off quickly, and even if your teammate goes down doing this you still have rez.
like you have to really take a hard look at her kit to understand that this is a very viable strategy to bring out her pistol a lot more than you think.
because what is damage boost really gonna do? it’s not better than your pistol, it’s there for damage thresholds and ultimate generation which if you don’t have that might aswell do some gun play, and her healing isn’t exactly gonna do the trick to keeping anyone alive that’s getting bursted down.
so the strategy is to outburst the enemy and heal your buddy up or do suppressive fire because she has no fall off and can really pester people from a far.
and mercys shots have a pretty big hitbox which makes it pretty good.
but yeah some supports are easier to use for different things but it’s completely doable to do some crazy things on them, it’s just that you don’t see it because of heal bots.
now let’s get down to brass tax, you can deal with genjis, widows, reapers and pharahs, it depends on your skill, however.
when this happens it’s simply a team diff and those games are just losses, because your reaper or pharah or whatever should atleast be able to put up a fight even if they didn’t even have a support.
like really, did the enemy need a support for these characters to carry as much as they did? no, not really, it really becomes more about the cooldowns and the utility the higher you go, otherwise moira would be hard meta across all ranks.
and i doubt it would make a difference what character you are, you’re not gonna 1v5 the entire enemy team if your whole team is dead before you get to do anything.
as for protecting the supports, it’s really down to teamplay but in general it’s not a thing until later and in the mean time it’s a great opportunity to learn to fend for yourself and if you just start to practice the match up like a dps as a support you’ll be invaluable to your team.
just imagine being a moira that throws a perfect damage orb that bounces perfectly at a widow that’s basically using aimbot how good they are, you don’t even have to see her to kill her.
but yeah sorry for being long winded, i’m just gonna throw in a quick tip, if you play zen versus widow for example, you can duck as you release your volley of shots and you will duck super low because of zens animation when he releases that volley, it really comes in handy.
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Yeah there’s something really messed up. It’s great some people are having a good time, but solo queue support is hell right now. I’ve adapted well to OW2, with positioning, knowing when to damage and heal. Which picks to take, for the team or against the enemy. But 60-70% of the matches I’m just powerless cause damage can’t make kills even though I’m damaging/healing with them, or my tank is feeding like mad.
I’d love to blame myself, but when a game gives you 2 new people, on your team. And gives you a enemy team full of high level OW1 players like myself, you’re just screwed. And that happens constantly now. There’s no ways around it, no ‘‘just get better and you’ll climb’’, Blizzard is at fault here.
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tbh healers are at a really horrible state right now. i have more wins when i snap and ignore healing and just go pure dps, when dps are so bad that healing is just a waste of time 
the first 3 supports were mercy, lucio and zen, i don’t think they were really ever supposed to be just healing or healing for the most part.
mercy was kinda that easy introduction to the game where you could get away with it to a degree.
I bet you hardly ever play support. All of your comments indicate you know little to nothing about support.
People aren’t only healbotting (depending on the rank ofc) Support players just like tank and dps players tend to use all their toolkit and also make damage plays. They don’t have lower IQ than the other players.
The fact of the matter, weather you seem to want to accept it or not, is that the support role in general in OW2 has LESS impact than it did in OW1 and significantly less impact than DPS and Tank roles. Whilst on top of it all, support is now significantly harder to play given that positioning is key to not dying all the time and there is one less off tank to peel for you.
As a support player you are (mostly) at the mercy of of your DPS and tank. Tanks are the ones who mostly dictate the outcome of the game.
Queue times for support show that people are not interested in the role. MY bet is that this is due to the role being unfun and unrewarding to play. The support role is in a bad place atm. This is even the consensus among some of the top ranked streamers.
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I main Moira and I damage a lot as well as heal, depending on the teams health.
Yep, you can get chased by an OP tank and trained throughout. I get a Winston literally jumping on only me because he knows if I die, the team dies. If tanks weren’t so overpowered this wouldn’t be the case as much.
I’d say tanks and DPS tbh, I’ve seen plenty of DPS run in front, solo and expect heals with no protection.
I used to main tank but now I main support, I prefer support tbh, especially when playing with a friend, but still gets quite annoying.
yeah i don’t have any hours in supports, just about 1500 hours, and about 2000 hours in tank and about 1300hours in dps.
i got plenty of experience, tanks were OP as hell in overwatch1 but nobody played the role, don’t mean there was anything bad about the characters themselves, they were good, actually too good.
now in overwatch 2 there’s just room for one OP tank on each team which gives the other roles more room for impact over the game.
give me a clip of one high ranking support streamer that says supports are less impactful in overwatch 2.
just on top of my head go watch some of Stylosa’s YT videos. He has even made dedicated videos about it.
Don’t trust anything from Stylosa, he is many words that can’t be said here.
pick one and i’ll watch it and see what he has to say, i really haven’t kept up with the guy in a long time.
Well he must be doing something right with 3/4 of a million subscribers on YouTube. I find his videos most informative, helpful, and entertaining.
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Legacy. He’s basically done nothing of note for about 2+ years. Now just cries about things a lot.
i don’t think he’s done much of note at all, just pandering to his audience like most overwatch content creators.