Should ranking system change?

General Discussion
1

The background as of why im posting:
I feel like single que matchmaking is a toxic wasteland in wich i can never go anywhere but down in rank - into much more toxic games.

Its not really fun to single que (and i dont have any friends to que with.)
this means Overwatch, albeit a great game… is not fun or great.

its very rare, perhaps in 1 out of 15 games, you get teammates that are all in voice chat and are actually nice and all that… And its gets alot more rarer to even see teammates in voice chat in the lower end of the rating system.
I have tried to wrap my head around the problem, and i have come up with this:

A ranking system that dont give minus rank-points to losing player, unless they are above 3500 pts rank
(making a rank-platau at 3499 pts)

This would make this game alot less toxic.

Ive been an active pug* team captain in cs:go
Im “proud” to say that i have single qued and lead my team in a way that i atleast could reach CSGO “Global Elite” MM-rank. I’m maybe not the smartest or best FPS player, but atleast its something.

In overwatch, i “qualify” in at around 2500 mm rating, and then … de-rank de-rank de-rank…

in cs:go, its 4 other players.
in overwatch its 5 others, i think this plays a huge role in the outcome of the games. But im pretty sure overwatch ranking systems is flawed also.

and the damn toxic community… wow… jesus christ, Blizzard please!!
im tired of de-ranking into more toxic levels… every season… its the same.
Just one season , try something diffrent… try plataouing the skillbase at 3500.

*pug = pick up group = “random groups”

2

Ok first of all did I misunderstand you or did you just say people should only be able to win points and not lose them below 3500? That’s not really competitive is it?

Secondly let me introduce you to the Looking for Group feature in Overwatch: It allows you to find players in game that are willing to communicate and try to win. The good thing is that the feature is quite old so most people don’t use it anymore which is the reason why you will rarely find toxic players. And even if you do, your group members probably hate him as much as you do and he will get kicked. If not just remember the name leave the group and find a new one.

3

Not being able to lose SR below a certain point would mean that a number lower than 3500 was essentially meaningless… given that that applies to over 80% of players I think that’s a bad idea.

i “qualify” in at around 2500 mm rating, and then … de-rank de-rank de-rank…

That’s because the matchmaker isn’t ranking you, it’s ranking your team. Your team is randomly generated each match, which ends up giving you only a very tiny ability to impact your SR. You will float up and down almost completely at random: the only way to overcome this is to play a comically large number of games (on the order of 12+ per day, every day) to “climb”.

This issue is compounded by the effect of lowered ranks. The lowest ranks are heavily polluted with toxic players and trolls, instead of being banned from play they simply derank into Bronze (a place that should only realistically have new players). This has the effect of repelling the majority of players from Competitive, and it means that losing SR is always easier than gaining it. This means that in order to maintain your rank you need to be better than that rank… which is obviously insane.

6-stacking with serious players is time consuming and unrealistic for more than a few matches as players leave. Remember, it only takes one player to lose a match, but you need all 6 to win, so once a single person on your LFG team gets bored you need to go back and regroup. Given that queue times are already hilariously inflated this just isn’t sensible, in fact it’d be near impossible at the highest and lowest ranks where there are fewer players.

4

I never said that it would be practical in master/gm or bronze but it 100% is practical in plat I have tried it myself.

Also I honestly I disagree with your climbing method. I guesd everyone has their own way of climbing the ladder. I personally only play a few matches a day and only when Iam warmed up and feeling confident. Got me from high diamond to masters in 11 Games (including placements) with an 83% winrate.

5

Its not flawed mate, its just that both are literally different games. Like they are SO different the only 2 things they have in common is being a FPS and having guns. Thats it.

You win and lose as a team, you cant be alone and 1v6 all the time nor you can “guard” or “camp” a site with another buddy and destroy an entire team pushing in unison. You have to change your mindset because you cant counterstrike OW, the same way you cant go from OW into CSGO and expect heals.

Its absurd.

6

Its designed at expense psychologically to give you a sense of slowly improving in small increments to keep you playing.
Blizzard employs these reward systems to attempt to hook people into their games. WoW was a classic example.
Overwatch will hand you some SR then take it away but over time try and have you reach a high point even if it takes you down again. This is to make you want to climb again.
Have you never seen some of the struggles and losing streaks Top500 players go on when they place new accounts in plat and have to climb up to the top its truly bonkers.

7

that’s not true. No one has stated this, and even if they did, this is still not true.
im just saying that everyone should NOT lose sr.
some should be unaffected, some should perhaps even gain a small amount, even if they are losing.

the rank is meaningless now as is.
Why do you think everything related to OW e-sports has failed?? lol.

A lot of players whine about “amagaad you have all gold medals??? well, it doesn’t matter” … guess what, the rank system is based on those gold medals.

Yes, it’s a form of collective punishment (this is outlawed in a lot of countries for good reasons.)

This is not true either, the more you play the more you lose sr. - to a certain point determined if you can carry the game alone.
There is no other “break-even point”.
'The odds are stacked against a solo player to meaningfully impact their own rank.
once again… why do you think ow e-sport has failed and the “community” of ow is so damn toxic.
It’s because of the rank system alone.

nope. You’re just guessing. and it is wrong.

It’s actually an “egg or hen” discussion.
People are toxic in lower ranks because they feel cheated by the game/community out of a higher rank. they see no point in trying, as their performance doesn’t matter.

At high ranks, players are grateful to the community for having the luck to play at higher ranks.
(ever notice the “toxic twerps” who say gr/gg based on if they win or not…? same psychology principles is behind that…)

ok, I guess collective punishment is not flawed at all. and the fact that it really is a punishment for everyone who loses, no matter how they played the game.

I’ve boosted 4 x random so I achieved “global elite” in MM csgo.
as I don’t play widow, Genji,Tracer, Hanzo in ow… i cannot boost myself and my team at all.

8

Voice chat is optional and there are plenty of games that work just fine without voice chat so perhaps try being using text as that is the main way of communication as alot of people includibg myself have no intrest of listening to screaming kids on people breathing into the mic and i manage just fine in ranked so if people want me somthing they have to type it. And i dont really get tge comparision to cs you made as the games are nothing alike whatsoever

9

Tbh I find it a lot better when people communicate on VC instead of having to type where people are which makes you vulnerable. Shout outs on VC is more effective, I mean you can type when you die as you can’t do anything else but when alive, you need full focus of your surroundings, Typing messages during could jeopardize the game.

But like you said, when doing it at the right time, non VC can also do well, depending if the whole team are alert.

10

uhm… not in my book. when it comes to calling targets that are low, voice is a must.

if you want to “lay down the game plan” I guess text is good.
but tbh, in overwatch: telling (or even asking very politely and nicely) will get people to do the exact opposite, starts to argue, etc etc etc. just because ow is that toxic and childish.

I guess if rank were a personal thing instead of a collective punishment for the losing team, people would be alot more nice to eatchoter.

11

100% agree. You don’t have time to type it, you could get killed in the process. So voice chat does play a big part in good teamwork and winning.

12

Learn about what Performance Based SR is.
Spoiler alert: 90% of the points you lose/win are still going to be the same.

When you learn its not about “boosting” the team and working as a team to win against the other team, you will start winning more.

If you want a more Aim reliant game, you have plenty of options mate. My suggestion is Apex Legends or Valorant.

13

All they need to do is make it a flat 25 sr for a win, and a flat 25 for a loss… simple as

ohh and they need MMR resets between seasons too

14

That would be a fundamentally bad thing to do

15

so would 5v5 but they’re doing that

16

Would make your Orissa playstyle even more sus.

5v5 will promote aggressive play styles. In theory a very good move.

17

lol. stop trying to manipulate things.
TEAM performance-based SR means that I personally will lose sr, in every game my team loses. Its a collective punishment for the losing team.
Spoiler alert: 100% of what you write is inaccurate.

when I’m able to teach 5 other random internet guys in less than 30 seconds that this game is not about getting to play their favorite hero…
but working as a team and counterpick the enemy team etc etc … then ill start winning more.
(tl;dr, I’ll never start winning more in a real-world scenario.)

5v5 will promote a far higher chance of 1 player actually boosting their team to the individual skill rating of that 1 player.

so I mean… 5vs5 with the collective punishment rank is better for me, as I’m a skilled fps gamer, than this collective sr in 6vs6.
but for the stability of the “ladder” and rank system, it’s not that good.

so I guess the problem with the collective team-based(collective punishment) rating system is only going to manifest itself stronger, perhaps then you’ll see that a collective team-based skill rating system is fubar.

1 Like
18

Sounds like you are the one not listening to the other 5 teammates then and trying to force your opinion on other so if think its clear to everyone now why your not getting anywhere as you sound line the typicall low sr player who have an opinion on other but wont listen yourself. I myself make siggestion to my teammates if i see a problem but trying to force someone to change is pointless. For example im a tank main and usually play reinhardt as i like both design and the playstyle of him on the other hand im also good with wreckinball so if i get a teammate like lets say a genji during a defence round i just pick wreckinball instead as i can defend better with wreckinball than i can with reinhardt if we just have 1 dps in defence but with that said im obviously willing to change back to reinhardt if the dps is willing to be a good teammate aswell and pick something that helps the team. And all of this works just fine saying in text instead of listening to some flamming child in voice

19

@Siltberg Greetings,be the one who will call whole team mates on voice chat,beside it,be one who will lead team to Great Victory. - And problem solved. About competative system,u haven’t see the worst that’s why you seying this :slight_smile: , but I had opportunity in another games to see,and this competative system in Overwatch is best,let’s sey gift from the sky :slight_smile: .All the best in the future!

20

Manipulate? dude you are literally making stuff up WDYM ? :rofl:
“Performance based SR” is a thing that exist below diamond. “Team performance-based SR” doesnt exist. What the hell are you on about?
Again: LEARN what that is instead of making things up and acting like you know about it.

Sounds like you are deflecting blame and trying to put your defeats always on your team mates here. Let me guess: Everytime you win, you “carried” is it?
Yeah you are going to never stop winning because you came with the wrong mindset, people are telling you how this works and you are trying to “CSGOW”, which is not going to work well.

But hey, keep complaining and never admitting that other players with way more experience and knowledge than you are right.

That will work for you.

Spoiler alert: Nah.

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