Really funny to see that people who try to defend that buff (by always using the same arguments, despite everyone keeps showing they’re wrong) all have that Soul player icon, guys if you’re jusy happy because you’re main has been buffed, good for you, don’t come to criticize every single aspect of the tanks
Charging as a Reinhardt means abandoning the team, it’s easy to predict and avoid, including the wraith form being a way of evading. A reaper can move inside the sheild to do damage and even hammer swings won’t bring him down.
How many maps is this actually good advice? I’m sure it’ll work on the Hanamura choke, the Volskaya choke, any of the control maps…
Filling in the gaps, her nerfed defense matrix is only going to help if you save it for his ultimate, meanwhile she has one of the biggest critical hit points in the game.
The bubbles are on huge cooldowns and requires a lot of planning to keep Zarya at a high charge or else she isn’t a threat. Spamming is a seriously bad bad bad idea.
But I do appreciate the arguments rather than “git gud”
So Reaper is strong now and getting a lot of playtime. What is the problem? He’s been junktier forever.
We were talking about 1 vs 1 situation. In teamfight just have godly aim Hanzo or Widow and watch as Reaper dies as wet paper.
Also your team should follow Rein when you charge and if you use charge to run away you actually get to your team.
Not all fights happen in choke.
I’m using those tactics I am happy with them and I have more problems with mr McRightclick than Reaper. I am plat player so my Reaper enemies are mostly gold - diamond.
Reaper is my 8th most played hero, I only picked this icon because it reminded me of a old anime called Soul Eater, I hadn’t actually realised it was Reaper related till you said it, more so since the soul orbs don’t exist in game anymore. Most of that time on Reaper was when I first started playing.
Hardly, you don’t need to charge miles away, just aim for something closer behind the Reaper
Well, Orisa doesn’t need the enviroment to solo Reaper anyway, between shield, defensive stance and halt, you can quite easily take down a reaper solo.
Don’t actually agree with his advice here, Hamond, sure, roll away and get range then shoot him in the face, Winston however can win by dropping his shield and skirting the edges of it, but Reaper is nasty for Winston to deal with, he always has been.
Also can boost away as needed and restricting DM to ultimate only is a waste. You’d be better off using it normally. 2 seconds of no damage is enough time to kill a Reaper unless your team is asleep.
Thats always true of Zarya bubbles but in the context of Reaper, she doesn’t have a massive hitbox like the other tanks so he heals far less. With bubble she can easily face-to-face Reaper with her primary fire.
NERF ****ING REAPER FFS…
I can’t play anymore…
Most successful games balance from top to bottom not from bottom to the top. Cs, Dota, Lol, etc etc. When a game is easy and forces you to play on stuff that cap your skill ceiling its bound to die and that’s one of the main reasons this game got killed.
Hopefully they learn’d. Since even if they make the game good now, the players aren’t coming back. Since no one bothers to check for updates on a game they drop’d.
8th/30 and you dare to telle that nah you never play him…
I played some games yesterday. Even platinum scrubs know how to switch to Pharah and blow him to bits. As per always Widowmaker has been a much bigger problem because you can expect your Winston to not be able to get to her(I am serious here).
Reaper wrecks every elo, that is unable to play hitscan at all.
Which starts at gold. Or even lower.
Plat already has decent aim.
Dia will just hit.
Srsly not joking, spamzo can only win against reaper unless spamzo really is afk.
If he gets close, walk up the wall.
From this week here are some stats which I think really puts into perspective how Reaper is too overpowered;
Bronze competitive - Highest Elims at 23 per game, the avegrage is around 16-19
Silver competitive - Highest Elims again at 25 with the average number around 20-21. The only other person at that level is Bastion
Gold competitive - 27 Elims, the average is around 20-22. In this Bracket, Reaper has the highest win to pick rate ratio.
Platinum competitive - highest Elims at 28, again, the best win to pick rate ratio.
Now the consensus is that the majority of OW players are somewhere in these brackets, so if you’re in any of these tiers you know that you are so much more likely the crush the other team with Reaper than any other character.
So clearly the higher tiers are finding him much easier to deal with? Nope:
Diamond competitive - Highest Elims of all heroes with 28, the highest pick rate to win ratio. His win ratio is at 57%
Master Competitive - Highest Elims of all heroes with 27, the average for other heroes is around 21-23. Also highest win rate at 58.8%
Grandmaster Competitive - Joint highest Elims at 27 and his Win rate is just under 60%
The reason I have a problem is because I can see it there, this isn’t about bias or disagreement it’s because it’s so obvious to the community this is unbalanced. Especially at the lower tiers, I feel like that this change is going to really mess with people’s game experience.
His stats in the platinum bracket are very similar to Ashe’s stats. The only one which is blatantly better is eliminations but his shotguns have a huge spread while Ashe is hit scan so its normal for him to hit more people. D.Va similarly has a ton of eliminations, so does Pharah with her splash. Hit scans like McCree and Tracer are at the lower end but this doesn’t mean Repaer is so much better than them.
Trying to decipher what you said…
When did I say I never play him? I said he was my 8th most played hero which he is and most of the time spent on him was just after launch (same with Tracer)
Think I’ve spent maybe 1 hour on him in the last 2-3 months total. Most of that was giving him a try after the patch. Look at my Moria time played in comparison and he was only release relatively recently. Shame you can’t filter the profiles by date or season.
So what exactly are you moaning about?
Elims isn’t exactly a stat that shows how effective he is. He might be doing 1 damage to every target that dies for all we know. Its only effective when combined with the other stats.
Win ratio has similar problems, such as team-play affecting it and the heroes he synergies with.
Also given the patch is still relatively recent, a lot of players are still adjusting to his new regen so make more mistakes against Reaper currently, we need numbers that have given people time to adjust to his changes to make a judgement call on.
Also as he has been changed recently, like new heroes, his pick rate is artificially inflated while people try him out and test new things with him.
Ashe has very similar stats and she was release much longer ago so there is a better case to nerf her from the numbers.
Also hes not one of the top damage dealers in any category, he never gets higher than 6th.
Also no, he isn’t tied on Elims at Grandmaster Comp., hes second. Trying to twist it a bit there, the number is an average, you can’t just round it, particularly when you DON’T do it for the ones he would otherwise be tied in instead of winning… Thats just trying to manipulate the numbers to support your argument.
Also the fact below Diamond hes a rare pick (6.04% at GM, 7.36% at Master, 10.70% at Diamond), shows the top players don’t really think hes that great, Genji, McCree and Ashe all have nearly double his pick rate.
At the lower tiers I agree, Elims isn’t as concrete evidence. At the top three tiers it definitely is solid proof especially when looking at a win rate that is so far above 50%
I’ll also agree that it’s still very new and that’s why there will be more people but I mentioned before that I’d rather fix a problem now rather than later. And if the way to enjoy playing the game is to wait for people to stop picking Reaper then that’s a really upsetting plan.
In terms of specific numbers his is 27.80 and Zarya is 27.93. So if we want to be pedantic he is second. Sorry, I don’t want to manipulate or try to twist the argument; My point here being that Pro players in Grandmaster mentioned how this patch wouldn’t be something to worry about and the numbers suggest they were wrong.
This is what I said earlier about pick rate. I do see your logic, but if the attitude is “he’s not in that many games even if he is broken” then it isn’t right
No, causing a tiny bit of damage to someone who later dies is not a relevant stat without other numbers to back it up, like % of elims he caused a significant amount of damage on % wise.
Well, when you apply one rule when hes ahead and another when he isn’t, then it certainly looks like you are. If you had been applying the same rule consistently I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but always applying the most favourable rule to suit your argument is pretty much the definition of manipulating the numbers.
This would imply that the higher ranking players are actually stupid with no clue about the game
The better/more dedicated players quickly test out changes to characters and new characters, if the change had made him OP, they would be picking him over the other DPS which they clearly aren’t. It would be extremely rare for a character to get a OP buff and NOT shoot up in the pick-rate. McCree got a big pick rate boost with his FTH buff for example.
I’m not saying its the perfect stat to use but its a hell of a lot more reliable stat than eliminations!
I appreciate the check on that! I woudln’t want people to misunderstand, I just looked at the bigger number but for anyone who wanted the percent difference it’s there now too.
Haha I would never say that!! But just because the’re wrong about something doesn’t take away their skill level. It’s important to speak out for the players in lower skill tiers
I’m basing my opinions on these numbers and to ignore them seems silly to me. In fairness, it’s not a very black and white topic but I’m still on the side that Reaper isn’t fairly balanced. (Not that it matters, I really douby Blizzard will take notice of what’s been said here)
Keeping it thread related, I think a few ways to balance Reaper could be;
Make his passive life steal tank exclusive to force him to be more selective in group fights
Lower his Health from 250 to 200, matching that of other tank buster heroes like Hanzo and Mcree.
Decrease the AOE of Death blossom and/or make it more obvious where the ultimate reaches, similar to the circle around Lúcio
Would be true if it was a small number of players not picking him, but you know how it works, people will be experimenting with him and they have clearly found he isn’t working at the top level which isn’t that surprising tbh.
Its not how powerful he is that you are objecting to, its how low his skill cap is more than anything. A character has to have a certain amount of power when played to his cap to not be completely useless, which is basically where Reaper lived till this patch! Poor Reaper!
I’d still change him because he does need a change to make him more difficult to reach his cap, unfortunately that would need a full rework as with a full set of abilities, currently in combat Reaper has exactly two things he can do, shadowwalk or shoot. Trying to teleport in combat is basically saying please kill me
These are all massive nerfs that would see him junk rank again.
Also I kinda hate to say it, but Reaper been a bit OP at earlier levels might actually be a good thing in some ways, since it teaches some rather fundamental tactics that aren’t as blatant vs the other more complex characters like how to keep enemies at range or the value of focus-fire!
Reaper highest win rate in bronze, silver, gold and then is 2nd highest win rate in plat, diamond, master and gm.
He sure has come a long way, from trash to smash.
All they had to do was speed up the tp and see how that went.