That is how the saying goes yes
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Doesnot look same to me .dont know why you are parroting wrong notions about the new expansion
Oh great someone necro-ed this, I have been dying to comment on this one.
No, Hero Specs/Talents are nothing like covenants. Hero specs are purely a gameplay thing. They literally have the same aesthetic impact as choice talents (Cataclysm vs Inferno). Unlike covenants that litearally locked you out of content (If you were NE you couldnāt do the Kyrian campaing unless you went into a 2 week thing to change), they do not lock you out of collectibles such as mounts, mogs etc., and you are not locked into them, you can swap them out whenever just like our current talents. No doubt something will be meta, but you can freely change, go meta for your progression and/or push and then change back if your so concerned, hell once you are done with your progress you can just be off meta all you want for farm.
The only negative thing about HTs is that they used some very popular names and people got their hopes up, even though Blizzard literally said right after the announcement to temper your expectations and that these are going to be purely talent choices. And because someone went on a tangent about DKs and Sanālayn, Priest literally have a talent called Sanālayn, and we all (hopefully) know how much any Priest spec has in common with undead, vampire elves.
Also I was there during the whole covenant fiasco pre and during SL. Hell OP we were on the same side back then and I remember you having reasonabler arguments, kinda disappointed that you donāt see how different one system is from the other.
PS Anduin is a priest that should have rerolled to a paladin.
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gave you the game to play?
wich game?
imo lately its just rehashed content, unoriginal, has nothing to do with the lore anymore and proves they dont learn or do anything with feedback given.
why do i still play it, memories i guess, hoping one day they learn. even tho i know they never will.
They did say they would rework Oracle.
But they should not have even tried to do something like that in the first place. Not after the million complaints about Aug, nor, the million complaints about PI since its very inception.
Hurts the high end level of play? It hurts EVERY level of play. If there are still enjoyers out there, then its like arguing with flat earthers. If S2 did not show them anything, then nothing I say will change their minds.
People constantly complain about every single thing, just because you and jo from your guild donāt like Aug doesnāt mean that Aug is objectively bad or overwhelming majority of people hate implementation.
Im a bit tired of repeating why Aug was, and still is a really disruptive specā¦
But its not about me and Joā¦ Its S2 of DF. You want that in M+? You think THAT is a āgood consequenceā of having a support spec?
You cant balance it. Its impossible.
Why though? Cats already out of the bag with support specs, itās either embrace it and turn dungeons into 6-mans/ turn dungeon meta into 1/1/1/2, or completely remove them. I assume you would opt for the ācompletely removeā option buuut consider that people to this day even after the so called āaug fiascoā are begging for a bard class, stopping the support spec experiment will crush all hopes for such a class.
And lets be real here we all knew that introducing a support spec would completely destroy the meta, but still long before Aug was even a concept many and I mean many people were advocating for the introduction to support specs, from WF raiders to youtubers to streamers to reditors to forum posters.
You balance it by introducing more support specs for other classes, itās like trying to balance a Healer to a Tank, both roles have specific functions they need to fulfill in a group. Imagine if Resto shaman was the only spec in the game that could heal, then āHealersā would be hurting every aspect of the game. Aug was the experiment, more will be probably added later. As I see it the reason why it hurts the game and the mistake Blizzard made was that they introduced just 1 sup spec, if they had released like 3-4 sup specs all at once we would be seeing a more nuanced situation.
You said it yourself.
That is the truth. And I agree 100% with your conclusion.
So why is PI āsupport treeā a bad idea? Because we STILL donāt have the 1-1-1-3 configuration. And until we get that, its better not to have it at all. As YOU said.
And even IF we get the 1-1-1-6 configuration it some day, āsupport stuffā belongs to āsupport specsā. Not to healers/DPS which is what Priest are currently.
I repeat : As long as Aug, or any other spec they do is classified as a DPS, and NOT as a brand new āsupport rollā that is STILL not liveā¦ then its impossible to balance.
From the 2 options you proposed (1-1-1-6 OR delete) the worst option by FAR is to do nothing at all and keep things in the grey zone.
And adding new specs with out the 1-1-1-6 is a bad idea. We KNOW what will happen, as you correctly said in your post :
If its so experimental, than explain this:
Lets be real. If you KNOW something will destroy the enjoyment of other people to such as degree as S2 didā¦ then what kind of sick experiment is that?
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Ok, I didnāt see the PI support tree. Did it extend the duration of PI to cover mostly a 1 min uptime? Did it make group wide? The reason why Iām asking is to know if technically classifies as a support spec.
For example here is why I do classify Aug as a support spec:
- It has multiple buffs.
- Itās buffs are role based (the scales for tank,the mana regen for healers, and the overall throughput and crit chanse)
- Itās main buff covers the entire party (in dungeons) and you can easily keep at least 70% uptime of it with low skill.
Sidenote: I do agree that PI is a problem though.
I completely agree with all of these. Buuuut is it worth having a brand new role just for 1 spec (as I said I am not familiar with the whole Priest hero talent tree). How many support classes are enough to justify the addition for a new role sign up? I mean If the priest thing were to go live (even though I seriously doubt that 10 talents are enough to turn 2 Priest specs into a pure support spec) is 3 specs enough to justify it? And even so thats only 2 classes that could fill that role. Again I completely agree with you itās very messy atm and it will probably take a huge amount of time before we get some semblance of balance. Imo even though I really love the idea of the Hero Talents I think Blizzard should have focused on adding/reworking more sup specs, but hopefully thay are working on those on the backburner and we will get them during the .X patches.
Idk about the whole ādestroy the enjoyment of other peopleā, It didnāt really impact my experience with the game, I liked doing more pewpew on my lock and I liked playing my augvoker as well, but I can obviously speak only for myself. And to answer your questionā¦ Dude itās Blizzard, this is not our first rodeo, remember AP, remember covenants, remember corruptionsā¦ need I go on?
TLDR I agree with you that itās a problem, but I would rather Blizzard encourage and expand on the support role than abandon and delete it. Abandoning and deleting is what got us into the dark ages of WoW in the first place.
EDIT I also want to talk about the Hero Talents as system and how it will go forward. Do you (and this goes out to everyone reading this) think they will be adding more HTs in the future instead of new talent roles? Because thatās the only way I can see this being an āevergreenā thing without avoiding bloat. So for example in TWW each spec will have 2 options for HTs, in Midnight we might have 3-4 options per spec, in TLT we get ~6ā¦ etc.
I dont main Priest. Im just repeating what priest mains said about it when they asked for feedback.
Either way, I agree as well that PI is a problem.
You correct in your assessment. But personally I still classify Aug as a DPS. Because it occupies a DPS slot in group comps. So you balance it against other DPS, and this is the root cause of the Aug issues. In my opinion.
I disagree on point 3 though. In my experience, Aug THE spec that has the biggest difference between a good Aug and a bad Aug. Its not all about EB uptime.
None. Because : As you know, adding support classes causes massive disruption. The more you add in this state of āsupport = dpsā the more it will disrupt.
Imagine you add 1 more support spec. What happens if that new spec buffs an Aug, and then the Aug buffs a DD. Or tanks with double buffs from 2 different specs. It opens up pandoras box like never before.
But you are right. Who cares about that disruption if its just a process to get to a true Support Role? Fact is, people care. And that polarizes the community. The bigger the disruption, the bigger the polarization.
And its not a āsupport roleā thing either. When they reworked Rets and they started to maul people in PvP you got that polarization against reworks as well. And as a result : we got no more reworks. 
And right now, the community is polarized. People hate Aug. And prefer to run sub-par comps than to invite an Aug. And if you keep throwing gasoline to the fire, then the Support Role is dead in the water before it even began.
Which is its current state. So. The answer to that is no new specs. Make 1-1-1-3 dungeons and simultaneously make 3-4 new Support Role specs. From the start.
It did to me. In S2 the day 10.1.7 went live, I literally got 0 invites. My season was over.
So I did my own keys. And of course, I invited Augs to them. But turns out, even in an OP state good Augs were hard to find, and even more difficult to measure their performance. And many keys were bricked because of it.
And I had friends that were Dev and Pre Evoker enjoyers. They literally stopped playing from one day to the next. ALL reroll Aug.
So yeah. Many people were impacted by S2.
I have seen really bad evokers that had 30-40% uptime and I really donāt get how you do that. Since the first time I started playing that spec I have managed to keep up at least 70% up time.
I dont want to sound offensive. But to me, uptime means nothing.
A good Aug will make sure to have maximum duration of EB and Prev during the CD windows of the DDs, and in certain cases, healers and tanks. Which is much less than 70% of the time.
That is when Aug has the most impact. Because of how WoW is built : Buffs are multiplicative.
So an Aug that does not track the party CDs, even with near 80% uptime, is a net loss in DPS. If the Aug tracks party CDs (including those of the healer and tank) and uses EB correctly, then its equivalent in DPS to a ānormalā dps, but with added value of CCs and buffing healer / tank.
And that is why IMO an Aug played at the ātop level of skillā is equivalent to a DPS. But played at ānormalā level of play is a net DPS loss with respect to having a normal DPS which is also played at a ānormalā level of play.
Isnāt that what uptime means though ?
They basically turned it into something like paladinās blessing of seasons.
Then this:
And some extra charges:
And then a RNG proc on it too:
Forgot the followup to that phrase:
Which is the important part.
In other words, if the CDs of the DDs are within the 30% of ānon EBā than its a bad Aug even with 70% uptime.
If its an Aug with 50% uptime, but ALL CDs of DDs are within EB then its a ābetterā Aug.
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