3 Likes
So basically his Divine Toll which has a 56% chance to proc, procced with all of the attacks, since each chance to proc is independent of eachother, and it all crit and then he used Final Reckoning and that all crit too.
I’d be fine with nerfing the conduit so it’s 100% chance to do damage, but has lower damage. This whole double the damage of something but half the chance for it to happen is stupid as it makes stuff too rng and bursty, nobody likes that.
On the other side he had the chance to only do 1 Judgment off of that and hit, not even crit for about 5-7k on that 1 minute cooldown.
Is that swing of the damage fine? I don’t think it is.
Final reckoning 1 min cd crit for 9k, 11k, 10k and 16k, it’s the same damage for all targets, but the difference is caused by debuffs or buffs, the others had dmg reduction, or the 16k one had dmg increase, or a very large difference in versa, or some of those combined.
And what’s the chance to crit with all 4 hits?
He has 29.9%… let’s say 30% chance to crit with Seraphim up + 20% from Avenging Wrath hidden since it doesn’t appear in the stats when used, so 50% chance to crit during all that, pretty high crit chance, but every ability and target hit is affected by it independently, so it’s not 1 in 2 chance to crit everyone, it’s much lower than that for them to all be crit.
Basically, he Iwon should be renamed to Iwonbyrng.
Lastly, Blizz is dumb as always for giving us even more burst than last expac with the creation of Final Reckoning and the removal of Inquisition, which was 7% dmg and haste increase that could be kept by spending holy power.
So, yes, blame Blizz for these kind of things, they don’t have the foresight to see that putting so much rng in the game can make wild … very wild swings in either direction, of OP or useless.
P.S. If ret did that dmg in all arenas, there’d be only rets up top, but i doubt that’s the case.
5 Likes
They should go further into “ranged-melee DPS” route and give us some DOTs at a price of lower damage spike, at least in PVP. Something like Expurgation should be our baseline and not exactly crit-dependent so Ret can “stay” on target without staying on target and have some pressure outside burst window (also would help with our single target damage in general).
Our burst that truly makes the difference right now is pretty much DT, everything else is kinda “eh” in comparison to damage it can do.
To be honest I would also want some powerful things that actually require …mana. Currently only way you can go OOM is spamming Flash of Light, there is nothing else worth using that would be limited by our mana because it’s some casted ability that costs some mana but gives us another ranged option that we can’t spam indefinitely.
Most of Ret’s abilities are actually holy-based and insta-casted spells, but they cost only symbolic amount of mana to not cripple our rotation by mana starvation. But I would actually want to use mana in some other way than FoL so I can feel that this resource has some point.
I like your points, but realistically, overall class design for Shadowlands clearly shows Blizz doesn’t like consistent damage at all. Trading cds is what they want us to do, like it or not.
2 Likes
Ret paladins are fine.
3 Likes
The only time people say their spec is fine is if it’s OP xD
Better Nerf Rogues. Oh wait wrong forum sorry.
2 Likes
The issue is divine toll. My paladin runs Ashen Hallow and the difference is staggering.
They covenant system is a mess. Makes certain covenants extremely strong in certain content and others disadvantaged. Absolute insanity.
1 Like
Retri paladins need a overall 20%-30% damage nerf in PvP, then it’s balanced.
1 Like
Strange that they have no representation in the World Championship while Rogue even have two dps specs representeded.
7 Likes
He’s salty rogue main!
4 Likes
This was a great move. Final Reckoning is great fun, a massive smite from the sky? Cool as heck.
And Inquisition was one of the most lifeless skills ever created. Just felt like a tax on my holy power.
Something’s fishy here.
He complains that the paladin, which required quite a lot of set up time and luck (multi divine tolls only have a chance to proc) oneshot his opponent, and then he did another 20k while fully buffed. But his team does the same thing by oneshotting their opponent in the very next frame.
Ok.
I agree, it is fun and cool and all that and i like it, but it increases our burst.
But it’s not the main culprit in this case.
And yet they placed Seraphim which increases burst for a bit instead of Inquisition which offered a constant damage increase and could be kept up all the time.
Inquisition was good since it increased overall damage and it increased haste a bit 7% if i remember right, it was a noticeable increase in gameplay speed and it wasn’t hard to keep up since it added to the time and not replaced it if used under 13 seconds left with 3 HP.
Seraphim just makes you high for 1/3 of the time if you use it on cooldown, if you miss the burst window or delay it enough it drops in value more and in the end it just makes you more bursty and useless the rest of the time.
The point is that they keep adding burst stuff to ret, to what end? They’ll just nerf it more and more until ret is no longer able to burst well, then you’ll be moderately threatening to the enemy for 25-30 seconds out of 2 minutes, small threat every 1 minute and useless the rest of the time.
Adding stuff just to nerf it later while leaving our glaring flaws in doesn’t put ret in a better place, it happens every expac where we start strong and then get nerfed to lower-mid status.
Blizz should learn from the past, we need more sustained and mobility, not burst.
They’re going to further nerf our burst soon™ and leave ret in the dust without increasing sustained or mobility.
1 Like
There were several problems with Inq when we first got it…
1 it was baseline for ret
2 holy power in cata was just bad… only 1 generator made it infuriatingly slow to get 3 HP (tho back then it coud be cast with less). So 12ish sec to get 3 HP to cast inq then another 12 sec for the first TV in battle?
3 The specc was balanced around having the buff up at all times, meaning when it wasent up we did NORMAL dmg and when we didnt have it we did lower dmg then we should. It didnt feel good to press it cuz then we just turned to normal dmg lvl… not better.
Sera is felt when used even outside wings but more importantly i dont feel weak when its not up or when i dont use the talent.
Those observations seem to be for Cataclysm… i’m referring to BFA where our HP generation was enough to sustain it without issues.
If you don’t feel weak when not using Seraphim, it means you wouldn’t feel weak without Inquisition, even though it was noticeable due to the haste increase. Seraphim has 8% haste vs 7% from Inquisition so the gameplay speed is the same practically for both, except that Inquisition was up all the time.
Idk about you, but i prefer my gameplay to be sped up a bit, especially at the start of the expac.
Problem still stands when its a buff thats always up it turns into normal dmg. You feel weak when its not up. Same would apply tp Sera if it could always be up.
Just my two cents on it…
Inq from cata left such a bad taste for me i didnt even test Sera when we got it the first time in wod i think, or was it legion? In my head they were far to similar. Nor did i actually test inq in BFA.
I do agree that haste makes a lot of diff in combat in the old meta but imo a bit less now with all the burst that goes around.
I do agree, I’d trade some burst for higher sustained damage. That’s what people whining about getting killed by rets are whining about anyway, and most of that problem is Kyrian.
Totally agree with everything Bodhi said above too.
Never gonna like dead spenders like Inquisition though. Especially short duration reapplication ones. The skill felt like a punishment not a reward.
Well i’m not too fond of those things either, Seraphim feels like a short buff where it’s even on a 45 sec cd, instead of 1 minute to align with other stuff.
But what i hate the most about these, is that they’re on the gcd without providing an instant burst of damage or utility(like stun, incap, etc).
Tbh i don’t like Holy Avenger more, i prefer Divine Purpose and it even sims better than it. Right now Holy Avenger feels like a wasted talent, it would have been better off redesigned some other way, i especially don’t like overcapping when using BoJ and that it’s a 3 minute cd.
That row would have been better off to be: Divine Purpose (rng talent), Inquisition (long sustained buff), Seraphim (short sustained burst buff).
With better balance than what they have now as DP sims better than the others.
This is from a PVE perspective anyway.
1 Like