9.2 Hpalas avenging wrath nerfed?

Hpal being bottom tier healer it is or may still be gets an avenging wrath rank 3 nerf which is a 10% (33%) nerf to wings in total. While in the same development notes rdruid (top tier healer for pvp) gets multiple healing and damage buffs along with mana reduction cost buffs. Quite odd considering hpriest already does triple hpal damage.

Holy
“Avenging Wrath (Rank 3) has been removed.”
I forgot to add: Ashen Hallow, Hammer of Wrath, Judgment, and Holy Shock damage reduced by 12%.

Please make pvp specific buffs to Hpal so PvE based changes doesn’t butcher an already low tier healer in PvP in terms of damage and healing.

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If you want to post constructive feedback, ^^ do it there.

If you just want a whine /pat - there there.

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Venthyr HPAL is dead, finally

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keep dreaming imagine a 12% nerf with ilvl ups 4 set and double lego being as relevant as ppl making it seem

Hola Paladin almost unplayable and boring, heavily nerfed, such a pain to main one if you enjoy raiding

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It’s also hard to enjoy HPal in M+ content. I don’t raid and I’m in the process of switching over to my Shaman because it’s getting too hard to keep up with HPS requirements while navigating the melee killzone.

And I think this is the major crux of the Holy Paladin. Class fantasy suggests us being melee healers, and partly this is true with the “melee things to build up Holy Power, spend HP for big heals”. However:

  • Because HPS of just Shock and WoG is abysmally low, you need to use “filler”, “turret style” heals (FoH, HL) when people are starting to take more damage
  • GCDs used on “turret heals” means you cannot swing at enemies, means class fantasy is hampered by design
  • Due to Mastery design, you still need to be <10m of the tank. Mastery puts you in a weird spot because it is only useful if you are actually close to your target. This forces you into melee combat. Melee combatants counter anti-melee mechanics by having greater mobility. However, as a healer that still needs to use “old school” heals in high damage intake situations, you are not afforded this mobility and ideally need to get out of melee range, making your Mastery pointless in return.

I won’t pretend to be an amazing, all knowing HPal, but in my humble opinion the spec needs a rework from the ground up. However, it seems like Blizzard is very hesitant to get away from the old “healers stand in the back spamming turret heals” playstyle. Every attempt to change it up a bit (e.g. Fistweaving, Disc Priests, HPals) have been half-hearted at best. It’s really a shame, having a mix of ranged/magic based damage-to-heal (like Rift’s Chloromancer) and melee healers (like WAR’s WP/DoK) would spice things up a lot.

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All hpal damage abilities have been nerfed by 12% as well. Hate how pve based nerfs are negatively effecting the worst performing healer. Revert Hpal to early s1 already - all healers have been buffed and are performing.

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I’m not playing hpal and after reading what the mastery does I don’t think I’ll ever be one. :rofl:
I don’t mind being in melee like a MW monk with ATotM or a feral affinity resto… but having your ranged heals nerfed when you have to make space is a big no no.
The old mastery (your heals put a shield onto your target for x% of the amount healed) seems so much more flavourful.

Disc could be fixed rather fast imo. If sins of the many was buffed, it could turn atonement healing into something more viable and fix disc’s dps issues without making them op in raids.
Fistweaving has the problem that ATotM doesn’t heal through Spinning Crane Kick… You’re left to decide whether you want to do AoE dps and no healing or single target dps and healing. It’s also rather bland. Old fistweaving (MoP) was a lot more enjoyable. I don’t understand why they don’t copy&paste it. :frowning_face:

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Completely agree. They have forced us to play in melee, with a clunky rotation (actually super clunky set of dps-heal freaky mix of spells), hard positioning, lowest hps, but with the excuse of the dps, pros have a reason to still use it. The truth is that for 95% of the real scenarios that common players face, holy paladin has changed a lot for the worst. No wonder why people quit. I try my best to play my char, but they keep on forcing me to play it in a specific way, completely unrelated to our legacy and lore in the game, trying to convince me that is fun because i can average 4K dps in a m+. What i liked was to be a healer, not a freaky mix of melee dps and clunky healer with no proper cooldowns. We dont have proper raid cooldowns!! It feels miserable in the context of an average guild that enjoys raiding for fun. Aura mastery, most of the times, is not fun to use, and people dont even care if i never cast it. The current holy paladin is only fun for pros that enjoy the detail. Do i have to force myself to be a fat guy from pandaria to have a chance to compete with my colleagues? Do i have to look like a tree?? I JUST WANT TO BE A HEALER, WITH HEALER TOOLS, WITH COMPETITIVE HPS, WITH A SMOOTH GAMEPLAY, WITH INTERESTING TALENT OPTIONS. What i have got now is a freaky hybrid, nerfed to the ground, not even special for m+ anymore.

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Blizz need to make PvP specific buffs to holy pala before 9.2 goes live. Buff the mana, healing and damage abilities. Heck just revert us back to early season one. Every other healer is overperforming now except us fighting a mana battle.

Back when Disc was introduced I was thinking of the Chloromancer soul from the game Rift. Chloromancer was one of the first damage-to-heal classes I’ve played, with a very simply mechanic:
Every spell returned a fraction of the damage as healing to the entire group. Nature spells did more healing than other Mage spells. It’s been almost 10 years since I’ve played the game, but if memory doesn’t fail me it was fairly simple. You had a Beacon-like spell for one party member and 2 stances. In the first stance, you did only little party healing, but healing to the “Beacon” target was heavily improved so you could be a viable tank healer, at least in dungeons. Second stance forfeited the bonus healing to the “Beacon” target in favour of more group healing.

BAck with the Disc rework I had hoped they would adopt something like that, but instead they chose to go with the convoluted Atonement system

A shame, really. I love the basic principle of a melee based healer, like WAR’s WP or DoK classes. But Blizzard is too afraid to fully commit to this sort of playstyle.

Paladins aren’t even performing that well in PvE - basically it’s all Ashen Hollow. Paladins are being nerfed because of one borrowed power ability that is so strong that an otherwise underperforming healer was catapulted into meta status.
I play Kyrian - Divine Toll is strong, but nowhere near the level of Ashen Hollow. If all my DPS abilities and wings get nerfed I’ll be better off just playing my Shaman because the Shaman has better HPS, can heal from range and has only slightly lower DPS now… will probably have the same DPS in 9.2 as the Paladin with none of the drawbacks.

As it should be.
Nerf holy palas and buff resto druids, Its time to bring back the old meta Where resto druids were BiS for everything.

That’s not how it works

That was when?

Tbc - late Bfa.

Pretty sure it was hpal>rdruid by a lot in raids and hpal ≥ rdruid in keys during S4 BfA

Resto druid in BFA by the way is the overall best healer for M+ in all seasons.
You do not need to take my word for it raiderio has it up right now if you want to look at it.

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