Maybe you should unsub - after all you seem to be the one with Nerd Rage issues, maybe MMORPG’s aren’t the thing for you.
Several thousands of posts on eu and us and yet non twinks still think hating on twinks will bring any good results…
Damage is done, enjoying the change is 1 thing but going "Yes! Begone noskill! " etc. is just pointless.
Trying to find a solution acceptable for both sides would be way better than POINTLESS whining.
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Only 29’ are separate, there are a ton of twinks now in general ques, blizzard just failed at this again.
In the 20-29’s bracket there are a lot of twinks with veteran accounts, the 20’s ones, the same stuff, the only difference is that they are missing one or two spells, but they will melt you face like a 29 twink did.
All right then. Keep your secret.
That is also a problem. Heirlooms should not exist. The very concept of giving a competitive advantage to a player because he has another character on his account is completely ridiculous.
World of Warcraft has to accrue new players. It’s the only way it’s going to maintain the size of its player pool, let alone grow, because players will quit all the time, even in the unrealistic scenario that there’s nothing wrong with the game at all.
So when the new player heads into the game and thinks “I think PvP might be fun!”, the absolutely last thing you want is to lambast the poor sod with games against highly experienced players who have powerups that he can’t get at all unless he commits to suffering through that nonsense for weeks, maybe even months, or just gives up on PvP and plays the PvE game. If he entered into the end-game as a new player, it would make sense to destroy him with his poor gear, but this is supposed to be the introduction. It’s supposed to be entry-level, simplified PvP for pete’s sake!
Do you think you’re playing fair when you suggest to low level players that they should have max level characters in order to be able to have a fair match?
Anything he can reasonably get at low level is fair game in my opinion. Enchants, potions, other tradeskill items, crazy quest rewards, etc. There’s a case to be made that he should go and get this stuff because he’s playing WoW, and those things are (supposed to be, anyway) core parts of the design of the levelling game.
Heirlooms are not like this. Heirlooms are awful.
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10 -19 Bracket is where I’d assume most people experience PvP for the first time, and it’s there that the gear difference is most noticeable.
There are an awful lot of players that enter BG’s in that bracket with 4/5/6 items equipped, best will in the world those players won’t ever be anything other than canon fodder in a PvP environment, twinks or no twinks.
Maybe a better solution for the lowest 2 brackets would be to have say Ring / Trinket / Neck slots disabled in 10 -19’s and Trinkets disabled in 20 29. removing some ( and not all ) gear advantage. You can only dumb the game down so far though, otherwise you might as well make WSG / AB etc etc PvE
People still won’t / don’t enchant their gear, use food. potions or anything else ( that’s inside the game rules) that they legitimately can.
So people investing time and effort into the game should not be rewarded? OK I guess.
You can’t handhold forever. Even back in Classic, starting at level1, the game did not care how much you knew or not knew about the game. A way of catering to the new players is to make them interested in how to get powerful, to learn about the game.
And to follow up on my last paragraph: You can do that by having them destroyed by twinks. Of course he’s going to get destroyed, you can’t expect a new player to carry their team outright. I’ve had plenty of new players whispering me about how I’m so powerful and good at the game, and I’ll teach 'em. It’s their responsibility to l2p, and to learn how the game is in a whole. This whole handholding design is why we are at the current state of WoW.
A simplified PvP with extreme balance issues that are not related to “twinks having OP gear” at all. It’s simple class design issues. Why do you think 10-19 is 99% rogues, arcane mages, resto druids and disc priests?
Yes, because by the rules of an MMORPG, you get rewarded for investing time into the game. I worked MONTHS back in Cataclysm to always have the best gear, to be server first holy paladin. Wouldn’t you be furious in my place when some noob just randomly gets the best gear too, because Blizzard thought “hey we need an even playing field!”?
Fair game doesn’t come down to subjectivity. A new player will not be aware of game knowledge that twinks have. Of course, that is unfair for the new players, because they are getting destroyed easily, BUT, there Will never be such a thing in ANY MMORPG as “fair game” or “even playing field”. There’s insane amounts of variables and general game knowledge.
Oh please. Heirlooms are even weaker now than dungeon gear for chirst sake. Heirloom just scales, so it’s easier to slap an enchant on them and lvl till 120. And again, it’s not heirlooms that are the issue, it’s the enchants. I can make a completely new warrior right now with looms, slap a few enchants on it and gy camp even twinks.
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That’s not what I said at all, and you know that perfectly well. I said that individual characters should be treated as individual characters, regardless of which account they come from.
Put more simply: My ability to compete at level 29 should have nothing to do with whether or not I have a level 120. It should exclusively be about how well I play at level 29, which includes how I deck out my character and prepare for battle.
Got it? Not difficult!
Yes it bloody does. Did you never stop to think about why the game has a sub-zone within the first zone for the first 5 levels that always has a couple of kill quests, fetch quests, and a breadcrumb quest to the next city, all while keeping the game stupidly simple and removing the notion of an aggro radius by making all mobs neutral at worst.
The game absolutely gives you a gentle introduction, and it literally always did.
That’s great and all that, but the problems arise when your message on how to get better involves “Quit and come back a month later because what I have is unobtainable to you until you have a max level character and/or your attempt to attain it will level you out of the bracket, which will undermine your attempt to get to my level”.
The minute your answer as to how to get good at PvP is to quit PvP entirely for months on end, something’s gonna horribly wrong.
Yes it bloody well is related to having OP gear. It’s related to many things. Blizzard just fixed one, here’s hoping they keep going and maybe, just maybe, low level PvP will be playable once again.
Yes I would, but that’s not what we’re talking about. You’re not playing that paladin. You deliberately gimped yourself to play against players who are worse than you in order to grief them.
What are you talking about? A game of chess between a world champion and a newbie is a completely fair game, but not a fair matchup. I am not talking about unfair matchups, I am talking about making the game literally unfair.
“I don’t receive an advantage by virtue of having to enchant less, and also enchants are super powerful and the real problem” -You, basically
Let’s be honest, this is the assumption that breaks absolutely all communication and results in all the needless insults on both sides. The sooner we drop it the sooner we can maybe find some valuable conclusion to this discussion.
This is definitely something to consider. Seasons of forced obsolescence may not have created twinking, far far from it, but the futility of endgame gearing, lack of community, and complete lack of a viable PvP progression loop at 120, definitely left a lot of players feeling like low level PvP was their only option.
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It’s not an assumption in any way whatsoever. If you simply wish to play low level PvP at a fair playing field, then you wouldn’t come on this forum complaining about how it’s now impossible to do low level PvP without scaling out of your bracket, forcing your make new characters or deal with not having a level of gear that would be unobtainable for anyone who doesn’t freeze XP gain and/or have max level characters on the side.
The complaint isn’t that low level PvP is entirely impossible now, the complaint is very specifically that freezing your XP while doing PvP is impossible. That’s a BIG difference between those two statements.
‘‘oh no we cant gank levelers and new players in lower brackets anymore, bohoo’’
Except that’s not all you lose, even if that’s what you really cared about. You lose the people you’re playing with, the people you’re playing against, the frequency of queues in each respective bracket, class balance swings back and forth wildly as different specs unlock different abilities and honour talents.
People want the stability, I wanna be able to build up a character, play that character, and not worry about having to do the same thing again in a month or two running on Ion’s endless pointless gear treadmill, that’s not even mentioning how difficult it is to break 400+ ilvl without raiding right now. I miss the days of TBC, hell, even wrath, when the gear I got mid expansion wasn’t utterly worthless by the time the next raid came out, when battlegrounds were full of people from all walks of WoW life and they all could effectively contribute without being stomped into the dust without a second thought. And even after that, the progression loops for MoP and WoD PvP were excellent. Where did that go?
I’m fine personally with regards to gear, I do raid CE mythic, I do have gear. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see how bad it is for so many others who wanna enjoy battlegrounds.
I suppose its a strange irony, people who want to escape the loop of endgame end up becoming the thing they worked to get away from…
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Was it ever mentioned why they went back to the vanilla PVP gear system of “Who raids the most will pwn in PVP”? The PVP stats template of Legion was pretty good. It even made me run some m+ every week.
Then they aren’t as big of a problem as you make them out to be either.
It’s one or the other, you can’t have both.
Anyone with enchants will melt the face of a regular leveler or new player. You can’t stop this. Ever. This will remain the case as long as “gear” and “enchants” exist.
…and even then one player will be more skilled than another and one class stronger than another. If you put the good player on the strongest class in at any given time, he or she will still stomp regular levelers / new players in to the ground.
This is an unsolvable non-issue.
Yes, Non-issue, because this is how an MMORPG is supposed to be.
Heirlooms are weaker than blue items. The only perk is that you can enchant them easier and re-use the piece after you re-make the character so you can stay in the pvp bracket that you just out-leveled.
At best it saves some time.
Agreed but you’re a fool if you think that you attract new players if you punish long-time players for “being better”, which is essentially what this boils down to.
“Don’t get enchants, because it’s unfair to new players!”
“Don’t get gear, because it’s unfair to new players!”
“Don’t play so well, because it’s unfair to someone who is still learning to game!”
You. Can. Not. Stop. This. From. Happening. Ever.
Ever.
There is not a change in the world anyone could come up with that would filter out Skill and Gear and Enchants so that new players only face new players.
Even if in the most hypothetical of cases where you somehow manage to have new player face new player there would be far too few of them for battlegrounds to even pop and they would be in the exact same situation that Twinks are in now.
Heirlooms are trash. They’re on par with green items. Please do your research before you come to the forums.
The more restrictions you put on the game, the more people will be turned off by it when they first try out the game.
Had I had as much restrictions as we do today when I started over a dozen years ago I wouldn’t have stuck around.
Have you read this actual thread? No one cares about ganking levelers. We do that regardless of any change and there’s nothing you can stop people from doing so.
The entire PvP community including endgame loathed the templates.
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then whats the problem of being put in a seperate bracket?
Rephrase:
This is a collateral effect of MMO systems being in place in low level PvP, and people who are aware of those systems will continue to be problematic for those who are not, regardless of how you try to restrict people.
The queues don’t proc. We never get in to battlegrounds.
You either haven’t read any of this thread of you’re just illiterate.
It’s not about MMO systems, it’s about PvP. The second you introduce PvP in anything you also introduce a skill level difference.
The only way for low-level PvP to be balanced is for low level PvP to not exist at all.
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don’t know what proc means, if it means the queues don’t work then i bet my eye Blizz will fix that, if its because there are not enough twinks, maybe accept it needs to die or ask Blizz for smaller team sizes
A battleground proc means that the “Enter battleground” window never ‘pops’ up so that you can enter the battleground and play it.
There’s plenty of us. It just doesn’t proc for whatever reason.
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then its just a matter of time before Blizz will fix that ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")