A lot of issues could be solved by reintroducing a resilience-like stat for PvP items

I think we can all agree that PvP this expansion has been rough. Looking at the forums and experiencing the 2v2 and 3v3 ladder, I’ve come to the conclusion that there are two large problems:
-Rating is massively deflated, especially in 2s
-The game is way too one-shot oriented (looking at you ret palas)
Addig a resilience-like function to versatility, where (in PvP at least) the stat would also reduce crit damage would greatly negate the one-shots. In general I think the game would benefit from everyone across the board getting a bit tankier, but especially large dmg spikes ought to be negated, and crit damage reduction (maybe also crit chance reduction) seems an easy way to do that. Much better than flat % dmg reduction like versa gives now.
Once that’s done, I believe the rating deflation will also get better. A large reason for the average 2s rating going down is the ridiculous amount of boosters, indicating that boosting is quite easy this season. Well, of course it is when a 226 ilv character can basically 100-0 anyone in 213 gear within the space of a single stun. BUT if they introduced a resi-like function to pvp items, the boosters would have a much harder time winning in 5 seconds, and that would help the issue. Obviously, playing around with the volatility of MMR, and its relation to actual rating would go a long way as well, but I’m too dumb to speak as to the actual method that could be used there.
Keep in mind that these changes are not a substitution to common sense class balance changes, that STILL need to happen, such as nefring the sub rogue 1shot cheese build.

It won’t help much. And why? Because they clearly want it to be like it is now. It doesn’t matter what “pvp stat/function” you have, it’s all about tuning the abilities with those stats in mind. It can be easily fixed without changing the systems, they just refuse to.

I’d say that the biggest issue isn’t the lack of a PvP-stat-function on Versatility, it’s the absurd and rediculous item level (thus power) inflation within one season (and the trinket bonus doesn’t help in that way either…). You start with 158 and the top is 226? That’s absolutely bonkers. And even the difference between unranked conquest gear and max-ranked conquest gear is far too big in pure power-gain.

Changing versatility is just trying to fix a symptom, they really have to take care of the root of the issue.

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I would definitely say that when WoW has the design it has, it needs a stat specifically for PvP.

I don’t think Resilience is, or was, a good PvP stat, and I am always a bit dismayed at the fact that players can only look to the past for solutions to current or future problems. There were some glaring problems with Resilience and bringing the stat back would only reintroduce those. That ultimately just exchanges one problem for another.

In the past I toyed around with the idea of a stat that would reduce the accumulating effect of Dampening. Something that is a bonus in Arena, but which doesn’t mess around with the value of other stats like Critical Hit.
And there are of course other ideas as well for what a good PvP stat could be, but I don’t think Resilience is one of those ideas. Bad stat.

While that is true, it does help the PvP-gear, especially the trinket slots, keep their value compared to PvE gear. The worst thing that could happen is for PvE-trinkets to become mandatory AGAIN.

True. But they could’ve (f.e.) just disabled PvE trinkets in PvP. Now the damage modifier of Vers scales way too steap. So it enhances the already big ilvl/power-gap, giving yet another advantage to the over-geared players in low ratings.

Tbh they must be trolling at this point, skulker does like 8k dmg but Templar hit for 20-25k same for starsurge.

It’s almost like they want us to say ‘’ pve trinket wasn’t that bad after all’’ xD

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Why? and what are the problems with it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xkEZzF44K0

Jokes aside… :relaxed:

It’s worth pointing out that Resilience reduced the damage (by a percentage) taken by other players and that PvP Power increased the damage (by a percentage) done to other players.

So the combination of Resilience and PvP Power is effectively the same as what Versatility is today.

There’s no need to ask for Resilience as a stat. We already have it.

The problem with Resilience in the manner it existed back in the day was the implementation. Hence why we have Versatility today.

The first problem was that Resilience reduced the chance to be hit by a Critical Hit. That obviously screwed the specs over that relied on Critical Hits, so that was wisely removed from the stat.

The second problem was that it created a huge barrier to entry between PvE and PvP. You would get absolutely destroyed in PvP if you didn’t already have PvP gear with Resilience. And in PvE you would be absolutely useless if you used PvP gear with Resilience.
The inherent problem being that Resilience was a secondary stat, so it came at the expense of another secondary stat like Critical Hit or Haste. A fair trade for PvP, but a massive disadvantage in PvE.
This had the side-effect of making item comparison really confusing and non-intuitive. How good is an epic PvP item with high item level versus a rare item from a Dungeon with low item level if I’m doing PvE? Turns out, not very good, which completely undermines the value of item level and the representation and meaning of colors and labels like blue & rare and purple & epic.
And to top it all off, then it made PvP itemization so difficult you needed to be a math genius to figure out how much Resilience you ought to have on your gear versus preserving other secondary stats like Critical Hit and Haste for offensive power, because hey, everything was a point to percentage conversion with non-linear scaling and soft and hard caps. Or you could just stack Resilience like a madman and become immortal.

So then Blizzard decided to remove a lot of the Resilience on gear and just give players a base amount of Resilience and introduce PvP Power as a counterweight to the overly defensive stat design that they themselves had created.
But that just further complicated PvP itemization, because now you had to consider the optimal amount of Resilience versus PvP Power versus other stats…and most people probably just did a copy/paste of a guide, because trying to math it out was ridiculous.
And giving players a fixed amount of base Resilience turned out to not do much at all, because PvPers realized that the free Resilience they got provided room in the item budget to stack more PvP Power, so they still annihilated everyone else in PvP that wasn’t optimally geared, and they were also still terrible in PvE because all their PvP Power gems and enchants didn’t do diddly doo.

So then Blizzard removed the base Resilience and gave everyone a lot more health instead and did away with all the crazy itemization theory game related to gems and enchants and such, so everyone basically got the same easy-to-get PvP gear and were scaled in PvP and were pretty much identical, but then people thought it was pretty silly to grind all that gear when everyone ended up with the same anyway and it didn’t do much because of scaling.
So then Blizzard just scrapped the whole thing and made templates…which also had a ton of problems.

But to summarize:
It is a problem that Resilience has no value in PvE (it creates barrier to entry)
It is a problem that Resilience is only obtained through PvP (another barrier to entry).
It is a problem that Resilience is budgeted as a secondary stat (it convolutes the value of item levels and stats).
It is a problem that Resilience uses a point to percentage conversion that is intertwined with the same point to percentage conversion of PvP Power – both on yourself and the opponent you’re facing (this makes it impossible to figure out how much damage you’re actually going to do before you hit someone).
It is a problem that Resilience reduces damage taken by a percentage (because it’s crazy powerful on its own and demands the existence of PvP Power to effectively cancel out and nullify its value. Players become immortal otherwise – see imminent TBC Arena).
It is a problem that Resilience saw so many changes and forms of implementation (mostly because it convolutes community discussion on it. Are people speaking fondly of Resilience because they remember it from TBC or MoP? Because those are very different designs of Resilience).

And there’s probably more, but I have to go to bed. :sleeping:
But I don’t think there’s a designer at Blizzard that looks at Resilience and thinks: “Yeah, let’s bring that back, because that was such a wonderful success the last time!”

Resilience like… versatility?

Resilience is 1:1 Versatility.

Its like people do not read what Versatility does before making such posts.

You pretty much gain very little pieces through Versatility in PvE currently, but the option is there. So you can theoretically gear a bit up through PvE aswell for PvP.

I think this is the best way to handle it. The issue is the locked-behind-rating which I got no idea why is it in the Game again.

Some of you seem to be missing the point. I’m not arguing for the re-intoduction of resil as it was, I’m saying that due to the ridiculous amount of 1shots in PvP, a crit damage reduction function for versatility would improve the PvP experience. Resil and versa are not the same. Resil decreased the effectiveness of mana drains, which is a non-issue anymore with the introduction of dampening. Resil gave % damage redu, which is already a function of versa. Resil gave crit chance redu, which I am ambivalent on, which is why the point of my post isn’t adding that particular function back to the game.
My argument was in favor of the last part of resil, which was decreasing crit damage. This could totally be added as a PvP only function (just like in the case of old resil) without removing or changing other parts of the versa stat, thereby not making PvP items useless in PvE.
So most of the problems you’ve mentioned?

Will just not reemerge as issues, or at least won’t get worse with the introduction of such a change. The only thing I can imagine is the barrier to entry thing, but I would argue that by making people less susceptible to being killed in 1 stun (by making them take less dmg from crits), boosters would have a much harder time, and would be less prevalent. This would actually REMOVE a major barrier of entry to 1600-1800 rating regions, where I personally faced boosters in about 30% of my games.

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