Alliance and Horde leaders


(Shadowtwili) #62

And what if a less civilized nation, like the chinese, go to war against ours?


(Brigante) #63

Well, whilst it is a bit arrogant of us to assume we are ‘more civilised’, they did sign up in 1956, far more recently than some nations, interestingly. So yes, they are covered.


(Brigante) #64

Less recently, sorry, I meant less recently, as in they signed up long before some nations who you would have thought would be instant signatories


(Shadowtwili) #65

I understood that much, and while I it was unexpected to me that the chinese did actual sign it, I have my doubts they wouldn’t throw out the Convention the first chance they get.

That said, I do think western nations are more civilized then the chinese one, but that’s more by my own definition of what civilized is and I certainly don’t want too, or feel the need too, force my vision on other cultures.


(Zarao) #66

That’s pretty rough mate. There are things to be considered regarding basic human treatment and limits in warfare.
Not going to lecture you, but that bit was a tad over the top for me.

We can joke and argue about ingame approaches or how “logic” things like genocide is seen in the fantasy and fictional setting that the game is.
But going as far as to take it to RL…

See, this is a problem I see a lot around here. People often mix reasonings made for fictional races and RL standpoints regarding said issues.
People can argue about how “reasonable” or “understandable” genocide would be…when talking about the approach a race like the Forsaken and the Orc one would have.
But then you log off, go out, and obviously would never start applying that same logic to RL countries.

Talking Zombies and Elves shouldnt translate into applauding their ingame behaviour by wanting to have parallel actions in real libe

That’s worrying if said genuinely.

Edit: And regarding the Offtopic regarding Rogers, I do believe that given Orc mindset and culture, it was a rather understandable move. They were still dangerous even if unarmed.
That said; it’s obviously a morally reprehensible thing to do.


(Shadowtwili) #67

Thanks that you worry about me.

I am more worried there are so many people that pretend humans are anything else than what’ve been for thousands of years and that think a worthless piece of paper would ever stop us from doing what we’ve done for ages.

Honestly, if you ever think that piece of paper will ever stop any nation from carpet bombing the living hell out of a enemy nation to ensure their own survival you’re just deluding yourself.


(Zarao) #68

Honestly, I do.
At least not to the point they went against what is established there.

It’s sadly common to have certain countries going punctually against it, but this should never be accepted as usual or the rule.

The basic human rights are at stake if it was.


(Shadowtwili) #69

Oke, this I can understand the fear off.

But just because your country doesn’t take the Convention that seriously doesn’t have to mean they don’t protect the rights of their own citizens or those of their allies, or even try and lessen enemy civilian casualties.

But I guess we’ll never agree on this, still :heart: you though, Zarao.


(Brigante) #70

I believe it was part of the Korean War, which interestingly has never been formally announced as ‘Over’ so it is the longest current standing Ceasefire in history, and whilst most belligerent parties, including the British Commonwealth, the USA and China have normalised relations with each other, North Korea has stated they still exist in a state of War with South Korea, and in 2018 stated that they regard targets in Japan, South Korea and US Territories as legitimate.

China is staying well out of this, understandably, as they have their own problems, but they did respect the LOAC in the immediate aftermath of said War, and repatriated prisoners, But as we’re saying, these are real world conventions, and not Azeroth’s…


(Shadowtwili) #71

Yeah, let’s go back to Azeroth and how we all follow that ridiculous Pandaren Criminal Law.

I have to ask, wasn’t that between Russia and Japan because of those northern islands? Waged war over it in WWII, never made peace officially etc?


(Brigante) #72

The Sakhalin Islands? Actually, you’re right. I thought they had declared peace and a settlement between north and south, but it seems they did not. So yes, that actually supplants the Korean War as the longest Ceasefire. I think the reason the primary one stuck in my head is that Russia and Japan no longer regard themselves as in a ‘State of War’, whereas North Korea -does-, which is probably where I got it from.


(Brigante) #73

Gosh we did get serious…


(Shadowtwili) #74

It happens to the best of us :wink:


#75

And I thought we’d talk about ways to develop Horde leaders and make the leaderships equal in power… Lol


#76

We can’t have any discussion without some veteran past world War 2 stories tho.


#77

Naive little thing, we’ve all had your reaction once.


#78

Yeah, can’t wait to do the quest where I, the hero of Azeroth, go to approach Admiral Rogers with a pair of handcuffs and arrest her according to the Geneva Convention…

…why are we making these comparisons again?

seriously, when looking for comparison, they should at least be relatable. not completely out-of-fricking-context.


(Zarao) #79

Often because people like to take RL standards and shoehorn them into the ingame setting.

That’s the reasons as to why the characters actions are often seen through the lenses of our modern western philosophy. And the morals that follow, weighted according to such too.

Not only happening with Rogers mind you. Most of what players argue regarding “good” or “bad” actions, often depend on contingencies based around RL standards.

For example, saying that the Blight is a War Crime in a setting where people can ask the wind to crush someone’s lung. Or to carry spores into their organism to the point they are eaten inside out.

There is a point where fantasy warfare simply can’t be judged by RL standards.

Also, this issue applies to characters too. There is no Hague on Azeroth. And there shouldn’t be.
We are supposedly dealing with a fantasy world based around some twisted portrayal of Middle Age times, where people are supposed to act primitive.

In short, I do agree that’s its rather absurd to try and judge how lawful any war action is. Best you can argue is from a moral stance.
And still that’d be stretching it in some cases.


#80

Well, she’s able to throw Malfurion like a pin, and knock down four of Alliance leaders, including Jaina and Alleria, with one scream.


#81

That was long ago.

But he’s definetily not average. He’d wiped Saurfangs’ guards in a few seconds and it took not much longer to easily overwhelm Saurfang himself. He killed hundreds of horde soldiers solely at Ashenvale and Darkshore. And he killed Lorash with no effort, right after Lorash together with goblin-hunter wiped near 30 average druids )))