Alliance High Elf Allied Race Megathread


#717

Yeah, a squad or something. But even before that Darkspear Trolls could not have significantly bigger population either.


(Darklight) #718

Then you’d create a disconnect from what is cannon and what you actually see in game. If you told me there’s five elves with red eyes in lore, and all of a sudden there’s 80 players running around me… That’s not immersive. At all.

That would be selling the integrity of the game itself to player demand.

5% isn’t a significant percentage, though I was using it to demonstrate how little High Elves exist.

I don’t know what percentage of Blood Elves became Void Elves (I’d estimate around 20% assuming 25,000 High Elves exist is true and that was 10% of the survivors, meaning there were 250,000 remaining Blood Elves), but I will say it would’ve been significantly more than the current population of High Elves.


#719

And in here you are wrong though. There are less Void elves than High elves, a squad is maybe a few dozens max, possibly there are less or even amount of Darkspear Trolls and Draenei as there are currently High elves.

Populations are a subject to change in WoW, I know it is not the best, but there is big discrepancy even on the certain populations from the different sources, which are still all counted.

250 000 were the number of High elves before the destruction of Silvermoon and only 10% survived, roughly 9% are BE and 1% are High elves.

Edit: I used the numbers of yours, I am sure they are not exact, it was just to show the difference.


(Darklight) #720

That’s incorrect. It is speculated that 25,000 High Elves exist, right now, in Azeroth. We know that to be 1% of the 10% of Elves that survived Arthas. The remaining 9% became Blood Elves.

Which would mean that there are 225,000 Blood Elves (not 250k, as I initially said). Again, assuming that 25,000 exist. That was player speculation based on the numbers Blizzard stated.

Absolutely, but over time. War, natural population growth etc.

WoW doesn’t take place much longer after the Third War, perhaps a decade or so. Elves have unnaturally long life spans compared to humans, I believe Blood Elves live up to 200-300 years.

An infant born during the Third War would probably be a toddler now. Assuming Blood Elves/High Elves age three-four times slower than humans.

Void Elves were referred to as a group of exiles. There was no specified amount, attempting to put a number on it would speculation at best.

A group could be anywhere between 5 to infinite. Relative to their size compared to the larger population.

It was certainly less than 112,500 Blood Elves, that’s for sure, as that would’ve been exactly half (and any more would be considered a majority).


#721

Can I ask for the source? I do not want to be nosy, but I have not seen these numbers tbh.

I use Wowpedia, when they cite their sources, this is what you can find there:

h ttps://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf#Population (remove the gap in h ttps please)

No, that is not what I meant, Blizz change the numbers, retcon them, just like it happened with Thalassian elves. I might see the thing right now, the number 25k was in one of the manuals, right?

Those were retconed and marked as non-canon. And the numbers were specifically changed to be fitting for Blizz.

Hm, sorry but I have to disagree, group does not mean thousands of individuals, especially, when there is a lot of emphasis that there is not many of them. There is also not a lot of logical reasons to any Thalassian elf to really study Void.


(Darklight) #722

The manual, you were right. I didn’t know that was retconned.

I was vastly overestimating how many High Elves exist then. The WoWwiki has that number at ~1,481. Far, far, FAR less than the 25,000 I was using.

If anything, that kind of strengthens my point. They’re practically extinct.

You don’t have to agree.

I just see, that, hypothetically: If a population consists of some obscene amount like 500,000,000. Then the word “group” could extend from three to several million individuals.

Regardless, Blizzard never specified a number for Void Elves. That is completely up to speculation until they do. We have numbers for High Elves though.


#723

There is also far far FAR less Blood elves, just 11 000 (that includes Wretched and Void elves as well, also the exiled ones, so it is even smaller amount now), which means that the ratio for High elves is more in their favour than in your previous example. Blood elves are also on the brink of extinction. So with such small numbers for both groups, High elves couls be playable.

Draenei were only on one ship, that is all. Darkspear Trolls were saved by orcs from small island and they travelled on a few ships etc.

That is why I said that population is changed as Blizz wants, as it fits their intentions.

Which would still mean a fraction of the population, no matter the number, it should not mean 50%, 20% or so to pass as a group.

It is not, but Void is dangerous and not sought out by many Thalassian elves, that we know, there is not much reasons for them to study it, so expecting that e.g. 40% of Blood elves are now studying it, would be complete nonsense.

Edit: Anyway the number of the High elves, roughly 1481 are only from Quel’Thalas, but HE lived also outside it and still does + there are those who travelled to Outland, none of those are included in this amount, because only the survivors of destruction of Silvermoon are, not those who lived elsewhere.


(Darklight) #724

Do you have a source on the 11,000? If you don’t mind me asking.

Also not quite, it’s still ~1%. 1.2% exactly. 1000 of 12,000 compared to 25,000 of 225,000. Same ratio, just a lot less of each of them.

Anything <49% could be considered a “group.” 50-51% would be considered half. >52% could be considered a majority.

Again, it doesn’t really matter. We don’t know how big the “group” of Void Elves actually was, and we likely never will.


#725

Just look at the population of Blood elves on wowpedia, which I linked earlier, it is there.

1 484/11 000 = 13,5% and that is only the population of Quel’Thalas so not 1% or 1,2 % but ten times more or if you use the rough numbers. The number 11 000 would be even smaller now.

In the recruitment scenario, we can see that the Void is not liked by Thalassian elves, it is prohibited and frowned upon them, that is why they have to hide since they are banished. Throughout the scenario there is a huge emphasis on being just a group, few etc. meaning that they do not have large population.

So we might not now the exact numbers but from all the circumstances it is clear, that their population is not large.

Edit: I used 1484 intead 1481, but when you round it up, it is still 13,5%.


(Darklight) #726

1000 being 1.2% of the 10% of the Blood Elves that survived Arthas. So yes, 12% or 13.5% or whatever of the population pre-Arthas. Multiply it by 10.

Kind of irrelevant. Again, ratio is the roughly the same. It’s around 1%, or 10%, if you’re using pre-Arthas numbers. 1:10, 10:100.

So was the Fel.

Elves have an affinity for the primordial forces, they NEED one of them to not become Wretched and lose their minds.

At first it was Arcane, then it was Fel, some of them The Light… It’s not farfetched to pursue another font of power. They’ve been doing it since they were no longer Highborne.


(Итилион) #727

Ehh… no. High Elves were said to be 10% of the Quel’thalas population that survived. But some Blood Elves followed Kael into Outland, they went through a civil war in BC, were purged from Dalaran, where those that resisted arrest were killed. Now they are taking part in an all-out war. I wouldn’t be surprised, if after all those casualties High Elves were like 25% of the remaining Blood Elves population, heh… Anyway, Void Elves are literally several dozens in number without any means to refill their population, so discussing populations is absolutely pointless.

If devs want, they could pull out of thin air a whole island populated with literally any race… cough… like Mechagon… cough… It doesn’t even have to be connected to the current expansion story in any way.


(Darklight) #728

Blood Elves are still thousands more than the current population of High Elves. This was already discussed.

Which is why I said, unless we happen across a bunch of them on some isolated undiscovered island… High Elves are far too few in numbers to realistically be an Allied Race.

Until then, it won’t happen. It wouldn’t make sense.


(Râbies) #729

They would make great Deathknights as many of them fought vs arthas, So yeah Demonhunter wouldnt make sense at all but certainly deathknights

With that being Said, the Horde already has highelves, we have the improved Voidelves, its time for this discussion to end


(Azrathel) #730

The garrisons were my favourite part of WoD, but I suspect it was mostly because it’s the closest we’ve ever gotten to guild housing. They still left a lot to be desired, though. Especially since everyone had a garrison in the same location, and everyone was the leader of the very same, but always different garrison. It made absolutely no sense for role play, but with a bit of imagination we managed to work around it.

At the moment we’ve got four playable human variants as well. Two dwarf types, two trolls, two tauren, two draenei, four elves, two orcs, and a few races with only one variant. I can see that elves are dominating the scene somewhat, but high elves are still the most desired non playable race in the game.

How would that work with the current faction system, or with racial abilities?

Vouid elves are still lore wise a lot fewer than high elves.

Not at all. See above.

How did you come up with that estimate? It doesn’t make any sense. Lore wise, there are only a small handful of void elves. Far fewer than high elves.

Ion called them a crack squad. In the US army, at least, a squad is about the smallest element in the Army structure, is typically made up of 8 to 24 people. Now, Ion may have used the term more loosely, but it’s still unlikely that he meant more than a few dozen.

And yet, there are more high elves than void elves, and void elves are playable.

There are allied races and old races with lower populations. Numbers isn’t the issue.

The Horde has blood elves. While genetically still being the same race, the Horde blood elves no longer call themselves high elves. The high elves that still go by that name are alligned with the Alliance, and are not playable at the moment.

Proto-void elves. The precursors to the void elves.

This discussion will end when high elves are playable.


(Darklight) #731

Based on the RPG manual, which apparently isn’t cannon anymore with regards to race populations.

There are 1,481 High Elves currently. Far less than the 25,000 in the manual. Further strengthening my point. They are extinct.

Again, pure speculation. Until a specific number is given for the Void Elf population, the argument that there are less (or more) of them than High Elves holds no water whatsoever.

In all official sources, they are referred to as a “group.” You’re right, Ion was probably using that term extremely loosely.

Good luck with that. Hasn’t happened yet, likely won’t ever.


(Итилион) #732

Ehh… where did you find that exact number? I’m absolutely sure there is no official data on precise population of any race. But that’d still be more than average concurrent population of Alliance on some servers, so not a problem.

How many researchers do you think there were in Umbric’s expedition? You just can’t argue with a straight face that there are more Void Elves than High Elves. Population is definitely not a valid argument against them anymore, as there are other allied races that are much fewer in number than High Elves.


(Darklight) #733

“Since Kael’thas took 15% of the blood elves to Outland (i.e. 1.35% of the original high elf population), and since Kael’thas’ army numbered at least 2,000 (“thousands of them”) according to the ‘Excerpts from the Journal of Archmage Vargoth’, it follows that the total high elf population is currently at least 1,481 (and at least ~148,000 prior to the Third War).”

And you can’t argue with a straight face that there are LESS Void Elves than High Elves.

Until proven otherwise, it’s pure speculation. I know you desperately want High Elves for some reason, and you will use any convoluted means to justify it… But numbers aren’t on your side.


(Solithrien) #734

It’s not really pure speculation. We can make estimates based on the evidence we have in-game.

We’ve seen the High Elves, in the form of the Silver Covenant, field entire armies across Azeroth for years; They’ve fought the Scourge, the Amani and the Mogu/Zandalari Alliance and yet still have enough numbers to field an army in Suramar to aid the Nightfallen. In contrast, we’ve never seen more than a mere handful of Void Elves in one place at the same time.

All the evidence, both In-Game and Out, points to the Void Elves having a tiny population. High Elves on the other hand, whilst having a small population, are shown to have numbers enough to be considered a significant fighting force within the Alliance.


#735

I dont care if high elfs will be or not, but i just dont ever want the tatoos like allerias has to be only high elf thing, its more of ranger thing then high elf unique thing they later after arthas came up with.
ANd all races need tatoos options of some kind.(even if its different colours for belf/high elf its fine but only giving to one would be terrible)

If they do happen and the they got such tatoos belfs and void elfs should have them aswell,aslo actual beards really shouldnt be void/high elf only either for the men.


(Leíá) #736

Dwarf Shamans, Hunters, Warriors and Rogues should get tattoos to resemble the Wildhammer Clan.