Alliance vs horde competence?


#1

I find myself curious how people feel about the factions competence.

From my point of view:
The alliance is carried by its dimigods where the horde wins true sheer militery competence.

Now i had quiet a few debate’s about who is the bigger lore victem.
And that made me interested how in how everyone feels about the militery competence of the faction.
How good do you believe the factions are at waging war?


#2

That is not the case, since the Horde was losing on every front at the end of 8.1.5, and the demi-gods can’t be on literally every front. Jaina for certain was in Dazar’alor, while Malfurion and Tyrande were in Darkshore. Which means that in Kul Tiras and Arathi (two of the many fronts of the war), the Alliance was winning through sheer military competence.


#3

Well the biggest lore victims are probably the night elves. The Alliance itself hasn’t lost that much (besides 90% of an entire race), but the fact that blizzard is done with the night elves shows already how much they care for them.

It’s also ridiculous that lore wise, tyrande would easily stomp Nathanos but in the game she almost loses the battle, even with her new power. So instead of giving them a tiny bit of revenge by killing nathanos, they just make fun of them even more.

I also don’t think that there ever was a worse act of genocide in the history of WoW (maybe in Warcraft histories, but from the alliance against the horde? - rather doubtful)


(Araphant) #4

is running zig-zag in front of the Undercity walls, dodging Blight grenades without a gas-mask

WHAT? Military confluence?


#5

For some reason this just reminded me of Rickon during the Battle of the Bastards.


(Araphant) #6

It reminded you HE DID NOT ZIG-ZAG! ARAPHANT SMART! HE ZIG-ZAG!


#7

Horde war tactics in BFA:

Loot an extremely powerful magic artifact that would change the war in our favour, then have it steal back by the Alliance at the very first opportunity.

Fall for fake intelligence and send our entire army into a swamp, leaving the city of our allies practically defenseless.

Also: burn trees, kill civilians, blight everything.

Yes, I have full confidence in the military competence of our leaders. For the Horde!


#8

Considering the only times Alliance wins anything is mostly when one of their plot-nuke characters arrive to save the day or other magical jumbo happens, I say It is either even but leaning in favor of the Horde. Considering what 8.3 will be all about maybe. If dem leaks are true. Alliance is truly hell lots of incompetent.


(Blunderhoof) #9

No, it’s the Tauren.

And no, Tyrande killed one of the Valkyr(which were supposed to be very powerfull beings, nevermind a huge blow to Sylvanas and the Forsaken as a whole), Nathanos was forced to flee after, get it right.

I’m also glad Nathanos wasn’t killed, he’s one of the few fun Horde leader characters around.


#10

careful with the sarcasm you might actually have people believe you


(Blunderhoof) #11

Was nothing sarcastic about it, maybe you could actually elaborate on which part I was, supposedly, sarcastic about?


#12

You said it’s the tauren without giving any reasoning behind it.

she still has a few of them left and 1 valkyr doesn’t make up for thousands of innocent lives.

After the player arrived, then mocking tyrande and raising and taking away 2 of her own commanders


(Leíá) #13

She has 3.

I believe Sylvanas needs to die and then lose those remaining three.

That’s the only way I can see a good ending to the “Val’kyr” thing.
I want Sylvanas to go back to being the “Banshee Queen.” The whole “Valkyr Queen” is just so horrible and poorly written.


#14

C’mon Harry, just another 3 horcruxes left!


#15

Why do people keep saying this.
There former lich kings minnions.
And the lich king is low on the scale of powerful stuff we killed.


(Blunderhoof) #16

Yeah, the blatant background portrayal(almost non narrative existance) of that race vs all the Night Elf stuff, good or bad… I guess you hadn’t noticed it through your heavy Night Elf bias.
Leader doesn’t take up the cause for his people after they’re attacked vs Tyrande and Malfurion…oh And Maiev, and Shandris and Jarod Shadowsong…vs ehh, Baine and hmm Hamuul? Who’s modeling for a still art in Silithus?
What tauren victories do you know off ? And compare those to the Night Elves.
What clear tauren race developments do you know off ?That don’t center all around Baine.
I can safely say that, Baine = The Tauren race, when I made the same remark about Tyrande, it wasn’t and isn’t as true.
Night Elves have way more customization options too btw, allot more, allot more development, allot more story…no really, you get the picture? Does it read like Sarcasm?

Well, you’re biased and in want of revenge(the latter I can actually empathise with), but that one valkyr might have been worth thousands of new Forsaken for that race, it was also a sort of life Insurance for Sylvanas herself.

Must be so on your side then, on mine we were already, Tyrande attacked, Malfurion Attacked, and Brynja sacrificed herself so that ‘we’ and Nathanos could escape, Nathanos never went toe to toe with Tyrande.
Narratively, I don’t understand why you think either one, Tyrande or Malfurion should have any such power to just ‘oneshot’ Nathanos, anyway.


#17

That’s hard to answer.

In order to see how good the factions are at waging war at each other, we would have to create a situation where Thrall or Vol’Jin would be in command Vs the most capable leader the Alliance had in WoW, which was Varian.

On the other situations the narrative is tide to the good Vs bad, where good wins on the end and forgives the other faction, because that’s what good guys do.

We wouldn’t had none of that, if they were capable of writing a conflict in which both factions are justified.
In example: border conflict.

Each time the Alliance and the Horde are at each other throats is when the Horde is lead by a evil Warchief.

  1. We have evil Warchief having military victories such as Theramore or Teldrassil.
    Through tactical tactical advantage, while portraying the Alliance as totally useless to say the least.
    Examples:
    Varian sent his best Generals to Theramore, everything was set for a huge Horde bloodbath, Garrosh came with a plot weapon out if no where.
    Mana Bomb and Theramore is no more.

As mentioned before:
The Night Elves send their best troops to Silithus and they get caught with a surprise attack, from a place they should already know by now.
Everyone forgot to bring blight masks in Undercity, even though they know Forsaken use it.

Than we have characters such as Vol’Jin, Kelantir, Farley, Baine showing outrage for such a dishonourable act, regarding Garrosh.
Or in the most recent case Saurfang and Baine, regarding Sylvanas.

  1. The Alliance retaliates.
    But they are never allowed to cross the line, since their hands are tied with morality.

  2. The evil Warchief finds himself isolated and his defeat comes afterwards.

How many Alliance weapons were “forgotten” during BfA ?
The vindicar comes to my mind.

In example, we can see Dazar’alor and Teldrassil as two similar cases.
Both involved killing a important target:
Rastakhan and Malfurion.

  • The Horde fails at killing Malfurion, because Sylvanas trusted Saurfang to do it.
    So she burns the Tree with all civilians inside …

  • The Alliance sends their player characters to kill Rastakhan and they succeed.

That’s the difference, in my opinion.

Cheers.


(Keydiam) #18

Absolutely and completely terrible. The fact that they’re capable of waging war in the first place is somewhat remarkable. Let’s actually start with something very basic: How many times do WE have to collect supplies for the military? Far too many times, which already shows us that neither faction has an idea about logistics and supply routes.

Now let’s look at some of the battle tactics for example Lordaeron. The Alliance foot soldiers are equipped mainly with spears, pikes and shields and heavy armor. Perfect equipment to maintain a formation and wait for the enemy to come. What does the Alliance do? Charge directly against a fortified enemy position, against opponents who are ALL far stronger than your average human soldier.

The Alliance also seemingly has never heard about tunnel warfare. Even though we have dwarves who are experts at digging and also experts when it comes to explosives. Dig a tunnel under capital city, place some high-explosives (like the ones used against the Zandalari fleet) and watch the walls crumble.

Yes, you have to assault the city eventually but if the enemy is strong enough to try a breakout AND even nearly WIN then you have failed pretty hard.

Oh, and the Alliance uses siege towers, which are not used as siege towers but as mobile weapon platforms. Because apparently tanks are inferior to giant wodden towers.

And let’s not even talk about the fact that no one in the entire Alliance army from the lowest private to the highest ranking field marshall ever asked the question, “What do we do against the Blight?” And the concept of reinforcements also doesn’t exist. Instead of holding back one or two regiments in Brill you place your entire army on the field and watch them getting killed.

And don’t even get me started on the Dazar’alor attack.


#19

I think you’re overanalyzing this. As far as Warcraft armies are concerned, the Stormwind army at Lordaeron adopted a brilliant strategy. Using ballistas, making space for their (inferior) dwarven allies, keeping their shield up, advancing slowly instead of rushing blindly, and just all around acting in an organized and disciplined manner, which is more than can be said for any other army.


#20

Sylvanas plans to kill Malfurion because she wants to “kill hope”. Doesn’t work, so she burns a tree with the civilians she was planning to take hostage in order to keep the Alliance from retaliation acts.

Alliance plans to drive a wedge between Horde and Zandalari- by attacking their capital and killing their king, they achieve precisely the opposite.

Really, the whole bfa story is a succession of stupid blunders on both sides…

According to inside informations, the Vindicar will arrive just in time to save Stormwind from complete destruction.

:heart_eyes::joy: