An alternative for the Forsaken leadership

Hi,

Given how nefarious Calia is seen from the players perspective, as well as the ton of baggage And lore issues she would bring if they tried to make her the Forsaken leader…how about Bolvar?

Blizzard has already started some blatant white-washing for the Scourge, by directly tying them with a sector of the Shadowlands that makes up Deaths army. Which on itself, isn’t apparently inherently bad.

Given the shift Sylvanas had, that shattered the balance and kick Bolvar into a more active role in the upcoming content, how would people feel about him taking over what’s left of the undead on Azeroth (Scourge or otherwise), and become the leader of said faction once Sylvanas dies/transcends or whatever?

He does seem to have a more prominent role, has some background and history that would have him relate with the Forsaken, and the motives and reasoning to want them kept in check.
Plus, he isn’t a goodie two shoes that would shy away from using the underhanded tactics the Forsaken are known for.

So, in short Bolvar for Forsaken leader. Pros and cons?

Edit: For now I’m not having strong opinions for or against said possibility. Although I’d say that I would prefer him ten times over Calia.

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DKs are heavily linked to him, though, and Blizzard insists on making DKs join the factions. They also refuse to change the faction system. So… I don’t really see how he could be associated with the Horde without divorcing him from the DKs. And I can’t see them doing that.

Malfurion is part of the Alliance, and still is the leader of most druids from both factions.
Same as Muln or Thrall were regarding shamans even if they are/were part of the Horde.

If Blizzard feels like distancing Dks from Bolvar, like they did in Cataclysm, or somehow make said relation a more secondary one they can call upon when dealing with neutral content, like they often do with Malfurion, there are cases when they have already been shown more than willing to do so.

A good argument against doing it. It was stupid for them, too.

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I would wait with that assessment until we see how his personality pans out after the helmet is removed.

Either way, I don’t really see him as Forsaken leader. Not with Taelia going round. You’re better off hoping for a Nathanos “redemption” there.

Really, for a Forsaken leader a blank page might be the best thing. A new, or not really explored character that can get a bit of characterization in a novel, a short story and/or a few quests and can be fit to what the Forsaken are supposed to be now, without throwing away what they were before.

You don’t need Bolvar. You just need a Forsaken. I agree that that’s not Calia.

So… Bannerbae it is! :wink:

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If one of the big factors for Calia not being able to lead the Forsaken because she is tied to Arthas then Bolvar should also have this applied to him as he is the successor to Arthas.

We’ll also get another “Alliance leader put on the Horde side” argument as well.

A former paladin to boot!

Inb4 Delaryn, because they already got used to having an elf on the seat and anything else just doesn’t look right.

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Dooming a race to a bland C-Tier nobody in a narrative as heavily driven by characters as this one…rather not.

If we are to remove Sylvanas, put in place someone important or known at least.
And no, that doesn’t mean to throw in some abomination that twists the race like Calia.

That becomes the natural conclusion when the story keeps on killing Horde ones.

Bolvar at this point has transcended his past. For good or ill, he has very little ties left with the Alliance.
Best case scenario, he remains neutral.

And the Forsaken are literally made up by ‘former Alliance members’. The latest addition being Alonsus Faol.
Taking that into consideration, I personally would rather have the likes of Bolvar over the ones like Calia. At least he is a heavy hitter, with solid background, motives that can resonate with those of the Forsaken, a mindset that wouldn’t be abrasive to the traits that characterise them, and bring back from the ground a race that has already lost so much.

If the Alliance is to have the Avatar of Elune, Nature incarnated, The Prophet, the Chosen Paladin, and a bunch more…giving the Horde an edge over the cosmic Death energy isn’t that of an overreach.
Specially after Blizzard thoroughly defanged the World Shaman and will probably kill the Banshee Queen.

Do not mistake the above with a yearning for Powerhouses. I just think that the Horde needs a heavy lore character for once.
They’ve been settling with B and C tier ones since Garrosh went down, and have been creating substitutes such as Rokhan, Saurfang, Gazlowe,…in lieu of Voljin, Thrall, Gallywix, etc.

…new characters don’t stay nobodies if they are used, you know? Just like a somebody doesn’t help in this narrative if they aren’t used.

Yeah, but still require Blizzard to actively work with or on them in order to be the case.
Whereas throwing an already established one, is most times enough to keep the story alive or engaging by its sheer presence alone.

If we are to wait for secondary ones to do something, you end up like BEs that had to wait almost 6 years for their first notable development of their substitute, or end up like orcs: with their secondary being named via twitter and forgotten until Blizzard felt like throwing some rehash full of tear jerking moments that concluded his story (and have them back again alone).

Look for example at Thalyssra or Mayla, whose entire characters rely exclusively on their neutral-acting period, and still come on top as rather rounded and complete leaders. They didn’t need extra spotlight.
And given writers, that trait alone comes as a blessing for both their characters and the race they lead.

Considering Bolvar is going to be the Khadgar of the Shadowlands and they didn’t want Khadgar helping the Alliance in BfA because “he was there for both sides” I don’t think that’s likely.

Also, put someone like Helcular or Belmont there, don’t steal more Alliance characters.

  1. I don’t understand why anyone would want more dev attention on the race they like. Really, reallys seems like a problem, not an advantage to me.
  2. On what plain are we arguing? What fits the story? What kind of character players would like? What would give the most story progression? Those are some pretty different questions. Mixing them won’t help get a clearer answer, ever.
  3. I just don’t agree that there is any engagement just through having a established character.

That 100% depends on what the authors want to do. If they care about their new character, they can force them in about anywhere. And just putting the character in one HD cinematic can get the ball rolling, like you see with Zekhan. And yes, Zekhan is a big deal now and carries quite a bit of investment for many players, although you don’t like this “meme character”.

Apart from that… They never really thought of Anduin as much of a character, before Golden made him a character in her novels, and that brat has plagued us ever since. Baine was a plot device, but was one of the lead actors in BfA. Jaina sat around doing nothing in Theramore for years until they destroyed the city. Remember Rexxar? Big name player from WCIII. Remember when he last did anything of note? I don’t.

There are more than enough examples of nobodies becoming somebodies, and somebodies being forgotten in WoW.

…how is that not my point? You can build up a new character quite rapidly.

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It’s a shame that one of the biggest parts of the factions identity was their loyalty to Sylvanas as with her exit we also lost Nathanos, Deathstalker Belmont, Dark Ranger Velonara etc. The canon state of the Forsaken at the moment is either those completely distraught over her betrayal or those secretly still loyal to her so any new leader for them will never truly be accepted even if they still acquire the post.

I can’t lie, I HATE the idea of Calia Menethil or Derek becoming the leader but i can accept them at least being part of the faction since they’re both in their current situations because of Sylvanas directly.

Out of all we have left my preference would be for Lillian Voss but I concede that her backstory and personality still don’t really add up to a faction leader yet. She’s just the most notable forsaken left that isn’t obviously an Alliance leaning char.

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Steve Danuser confirmed during Blizzcon interview Calia won’t join the Horde nor become their Queen of the Forsaken. So we dodged that bullet for good.

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Oh thank god. Well that gives me a lot more hope for the faction going forward since with Calia at the helm they would only be able to function as a vassal for the alliance. Her ties to Anduin and Jaina are too strong so that’s definitely the right call imo.

Interesting… do you have the phrasing on that one?

Also, this kind of takes her out of the running to be the Golden one that claims the empty throne, or whatever.

Maybe she tries to but it backfires awfully? Some light=evil stuff happening?

Making an evil Light storyline while they should be pivoting to death? I doubt it.

bolvar will go full Tyrael on us after he fell from the heavens he certain looks the part that will be his new personality