Another rogue xpac?

Anyway, point is, they removed a lot of skill expressions related to playing as a rogue, and playing against/with rogues, by doing this 3-second guarantee.

Which, in the end, is because people got too good at countering vanish.

yes, but I’m just saying that a big reason they also removed vanish was because it was a horrible spell to play around as the rogue player even just by elements out of your control.

literally all you had to do to cuck vanish was keep up a couple dots and the rogue couldn’t consistently press it unless he had insane ping and timing.

that said, the vanish buff should be like 1-1.5 seconds, not 3, and it also shouldnt heal you for 30% of your health and give you a shield.

That’s a pretty biased statement considering how often it randomly broke since vanilla and how easy it is to actually break vanish without the immunity. Didn’t they add it in like cata, when the majority of classes could use a trivial spell to instantly break a 3s CD… If they removed the immunity, I would say its laughable to say you’re “good” for countering vanish. I can literally press one button to break it immediately.

Since that change they have also removed things that vanish could also do as well.

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Pointless playing regular BG’s when Rogues exist, better to just play a game that entirely focuses on the PVP aspect.

I never said they should remove it. But 3 seconds is too much. Read all of the posts for more details.

guess the first question is whether vanish was intented as a def cd or an offensive cd or just generally made so that you could access stealth abilities more often.

a) rogue dont need a 5th def cd with vanish or in df even 5+6 as it has 2 charges
b) if you use it offensive you dont need 3s immunity, especially not with noobterfuge rxisting
c) shadow dance exists, so vanish is no longer necessary for that.

dots, especially bleeds used to be a counterplay which now are not anymore.
the only good thing left is hunters mark even flar sucks because it doesnt even put the rogue into combat and they can immediately restealth once out of flare (total joke)

Double sub meta :eyes:

I’m fairly sure instaflare works, not sure if they changed that in DF though

it is a very weird interaction…

vanish drops combat and stealth has no cd.
So if flare gets you out of vanish but you are at the edge and leave the flare, you can press stealth apparently and if I don’t attack the rogue in that second, he will just be in stealth.
sometimes I am to slow to click on the rogue to attack i guess
just find it weird that flare does not put you into combat

Yeah its pretty weird, when I used to play hunter i used weird workaround for that by having a mouseover hunters mark, flaring and then swishing the spot with my mouse while scrolling and that seemed to work the overwhelming majority of the time.

That being said, even with this weird tech some rogues could still mash stealth in time to escape. Flare putting up combat would defenitly be better.

9.0 all over again?

Even if your Flare isn’t well placed and allows the Rogue to press stealth a millisecond after you broke his Vanish buff then at least the “stealth protection” of Vanish is gone meaning any DoT instantly takes him out of stealth again. Unless it’s Sub playing that stupid shield talent.

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I’m sure they’ll come nerf the outlaw roguns and assa and leave the sublets alone and pat themselves on the back as they fix it all.

the double vanish is kinda dumb esp considering they baked a heal into it too

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Every expansion is a rogue expansion. Nothing new. RMP has been ridiculous since the earth was created.

They were below A tier for a week of a patch and got hotfixed very fast.

I’m almost positive they either have rogue mains in their balancing team, or have close friends giving them information and feedback on how rogue is or should be.

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iirc I think it was Holinka who plays a mage, or maybe it was Ion.

Anyway, Holinka said many years ago that RMP is used as the base for designs in PvP iirc. I’d imagine that’s because it’s the ultimate mix of CC, damage and survivability, wrapped in a neat synergy sandwich, hence why that core formula hasn’t changed much on the surface, it’s just the details changing form.

yes, if he has dots etc. that is correct.
Just happend to me several times in bgs and he cloaked my dots before already.

Isn’t sub shield only for vanish duration or does it also apply to normal stealth again?

it isnt a big deal just find the interaction weird

Due to crykiddos Blizzard trying to destroy this spec and make it absolutely weak in future.

Are u full pvp geared? Is one point.

Yes rogues aren’t op. They are balanced. Cc have big reduction in game now. He can from 100 to 0 bring some characters like mage, shaman or monk.

But there are more op chars.
DH? - big dmg, big heals, can see u so you can’t SAP.
Warlock - milion fears, stuns, heals, annoying Pets.
Priest - Dispersion And goodbye
Mm Hunter - free Gigachad opener

I played duo premade with mm Hunter He was no pvp geared And He slams targets for 80% od their health. In 5 games he did 20% more dmg than me. And i am full PVP geared sub Rogue.
Nerf on Echoing Reprimand Is feelable. Still we can hit for 80k.

Sub Rogue was all times stun master and burst master. When we have no shadowdance, no cds we can’t do sht. Our dmg without Burst Windows Is worst in entire game.

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Only Vanish.

Ion’s main is resto shaman - pve only (52k hk since classic, honor level 6) and as I remember Holinka plays warrior but I might be wrong on that.