Not sure I understand, but in terms of kicking - option might be to remove the kick, so you can leave yourself but can’t impose leave on someone else. Would that solve a problem?
Overall I am not fan of vote kick, I don’t use it, I rather notify and then leave alone.
I would say, personally, that I am fine with let’s say penalty on score for leaving.
Higher chances it is the other way around. Nobody is talking about guarentees, but the more experienced usually knows more too.
Like i said before; people exagerate the need of addons. Just that they exist does not mean you can not play without them.
Lets explain it other way around. Sometimes the UI setup or expectations around this are indeed overkill and not necessary on levels y’all are playing at. Other people usually have no basis on which they might demand it from you purely from gameplay.
I have no horse in this race, I am fine with or without addons, I still have gaming overlay outside of WoW app which is unreachable for Blizz or anyone.
However, if you think that removal of addon enabling API will make people more welcoming, nicer, and not performance oriented, I am afraid you are betting on wrong horse. But, I have finger cross for y’all.
The addon are mandatory to make the game run properly including logs.
Imagine doing Keys with people that has No rio Showing, No logs showing and maybe that’s the only key you can do during that day because you have some IRL to do, waste of time. People will abuse of it by joining higher M+ keys and “hoping” to get boosted from strangers.
Same thing goes for HC raiding, why if someone worked a lot to achieve AOTC as example, need to give chances to strangers to prove themselves? I am sorry but this is an MMORPG and to prove yourself you must find a guild that allows that. You cannot expect random people to give you chance to “prove yourself” because if i am doing a 24 key and you are dropping it since you are “not capable of playing”, i am not even sure how long will took me to go back to 24s.
I do understand that from a Casual View of someone that has no interest into min-max, playing decently or spending time into the game, is more comfortable have everything hidden because he/she will be more invited into content but the truth is that probably that person should not be doing that content at all on first place unless he is running his own key or his own raid (but probably he will not be doing it and just finding excuses).
It’s too much easy to expect people to give a chance to a random stranger that will NEVER meet again into the game probably.
Also about all the talk regards FF14. I did played and did savage and ultimate content, you still had groups even there. Stop saying on FF14 everyone can play because honestly probably you barely have done any content even there.
The solution is quite simple… dont use the systems for your own groups, invite on good faith.
From my point of view, this post just screams “waaah invite me to your groups, me good, trust”
But i would find it great if the people who complain about this, would just group up together blind. But they never do for some mysterious reason 
People were running Heroic Dungeons LOOOONGG before IO was a thing.
Definition of MMORPG from dictionary ( 1. an online [role-playing]video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously.) does NOT state a guild is a 100% necessity.
The keywords here are “I”, Good luck in soloing your 24 Key with no players because thats what will happen if everyone then decides to give no one a “chance” to prove themselves.
I would suspect you would be the same guy trying to sign up to 26’s with all 24,s and then screaming “Why wont they give me a chance!!”
I do not need invites to any PUG keys as I have a highly populated social tab of players that are happy to run with me regardless of my score. I,m happy to do 22’s and thats about as far as I like to go as the reward for me to push higher is not rewarding enough IE… BRagging rights or Epeen status.
And people were being inspected before getting an inv long before hcs existed.
But using your social tap is also a way to exclude people, you know that right? Why is that tool ok, but not rio?
Because IO is more a toxic form of exclusion in the sense you won’t invite someone based on an arbitrary number without even communicating with the person to find out anything about them, The difference with the social tab is that I would have had to communicated with these people and both agree’d to add each other and some of them are not so good but i would still take them to a 20 over a random pug person even if they were undergeared. 
So I should interview every single DPS that applies to my key?
Do you have any idea of how many DPS are applying to keys?
What’s the fundamental difference between regular dungeons and M+ dungeons?
What happens when someone isn’t able to perform in a regular dungeons vs a M+ dungeon?
Answer those questions for yourself and you’ll know why IO was never a thing before M+.
Is it toxic to only invite one out of the 30 people who applied to my group based on relevant experience and what my group currently needs?
I wish there was a difference between M+ and HC dungeons, I might have an idea that seems strange. What if we just keep increasing HP & DMG infinitely so we require more and more from people for every level of a key.
Wouldn’t that be a pretty significant change that would mean that you need to vet people more carefully in the other scenario since it won’t just be a static difficulty?
I think that is true, but it overlooks something imo. I don’t think most people, no matter how serious or easy the content they engage with is, wish to suck at what they are doing. The fact it doesn’t matter in certain content doesn’t automatically make it ok when a spec, or modifiers, or talents are hard to read. It’s not a satisfying feeling. And it’s not correct when the only or best cure is to install an addon to make it somewhat legible.
I think WoW has lost the plot there a bit with certain specs. I understand some adore high skill ceilings and a chance to show great competence at what they do. But fundamentally I think most want to log on and have a decent shot at being competent enough at the gameplay of their class. Regardless of whether the content is forgiving enough or not.
I think having a complexity where the average player feels they have a grasp on what is going on with their character simply through playing is quite important for enjoyment’s sake.
I joined in BfA S2 and I play still exactly like that. I bet those peoples WoW client would even run better when using less WoW addons… But I guess they just are either too old or too lazy to actually enjoy a game how it is meant to be played… By actually interacting with it physically and mentally.
I do not believe the complexity is that high for most content. Most of the specs in the game, as well as the mechanics, are incredibly simple in concept. I’m more leaning towards the opinion that there’s a large chunk of the playerbase that is utterly unwilling to actually think about what they’re doing, or what they’re supposed to be doing.
It’s not that the people aren’t able to grasp things, they’re just not willing to give it even the minimal time and effort, but expect the same rewards as those who do. And this isn’t an addon issue. Sure the base UI is crap, but it’s absolutely enough to do even semi-high keys and heroic raiding no problem.
That’s why I think that even if the base UI was top notch and mechanics were better designed and clearly telegraphed so that there’s never even a need for addons, nothing would change in terms of the players’ wiligness to think and learn.
You don’t need an addon to read your abilities and figure out how they all fit together to a good enough understanding to outdamage your healer. You don’t need an addon to look at a cast go through that ends up doing something bad to your or your group and think “hmm, maybe I should use my interrupt to stop this cast the next time it happens”. It really isn’t that complicated in practice. People’s claims and views are grossly exaggerated in this regard.
A lot of people don’t reach even bare minimum. I had a shadow priest go off at a resto shaman for not dispelling the “poison” in the courtyard in WM. It’s a disease and the priest is the one that can dispel it, not the shaman. I have no idea how these people even exist, like how hard can it be to check what type of debuff something is?
I was told by a guardian druid that I need to dispel the curses in temple of the jade serpent in season 1. Like, bro, how do you not know you’re the one that can dispel curses in the party.
This dispell is actually a great example, how wow gamedesign fails even on simpliest things. For us this dispell is trivial, but imagine a newcomer, or someone who want to just play a game and not make a research on wowhead:
In result, there is game, which is very complex and frustrating for non experienced WoW player. 20 years ago it was fine, when gaming industry was completely different. When life tempo was completely different. When people could spend hours of figuring out something before having actual fun in game. When game was not bloated with bazzilion of different systems and progressions. But now it’s just a nonsence.
Getting back on the topic with this coming in mind, it’s understandable, why players want to “filter” out not experienced players. Because game sucks at teaching it’s concepts, sucks at giving clear feedback if something is done wrong, and puts a lot of pressure on players in terms of wasting huge amounts of player time in case of failure.
Not as clear in dungeons since trash mobs aren’t in the dungeon journal, but bosses these days have an icon next to the spell in the dungeon journal telling you what type of debuff it is (poison, bleed, magic etc.)
People not reading their talents or spells are not a game issue. It’s a lazy player issue.
I disagree, even if in practice it is true that you can get by. I’ll try to explain what I mean.
A while back I leveled a frost mage, for fun and curiosity’s sake. I did TW dungeons on her, made sure I wasn’t a burden to my healer or an annoyance to my tank, made sure my dps was good enough, and used whatever utility I had to help the group. I read the easy mode, doable. Then I went to the ‘But if you want to play well, do this!’ guide, and went ‘Eep!’
Not long after that I read Ishayo’s rundown of how to play frost mage correctly, and that was more in depth than the guide. And my general feeling was: Moses on a bike, should we want this? And it’s hardly the only spec that suffers from this, and no I don’t agree on an average player being able to just read it.
There are multiple specs that strongly, strongly recommend WA trackers and a bunch of macros to make specs playable. Because there is just so much. It’s not ok in my opinion, and I can’t really blame people for just not grasping everything about their class and/or spec.
Instead of concluding they must be bad, my conclusion is more along the lines of the game not catering well to the average player.
I could grant you that playing any spec “correctly” can get incredibly complex if you get into the actual details of how to milk the most damage out of it, but again, that isn’t necessary. Having a decent grasp of how the spec works and what makes it flow is generally enough. I do a lot of M+ and it’s not uncommon for me to outdamage people by a large margin, but I’m what you could call one of the degens who really care about their damage, but what I mean by this is that you do not need to pump big numbers to succeed until you get to actual high-end content.
This is overall damage from a +21 AD.
I was the tank, the ret and the MW were my friends, the mage and DH were pugs. We +3 this run with this damage. The DH wasn’t even playing the talents that make his tier set work. We would have easily timed that key even if the ret did as much or even less damage the the other two. Both were well geared, and very obviously didn’t play their specs “correctly” since they barely did more damage than me as tank, but it was enough. That’s what I mean when I say that you absolutely do not need to pump as much as you think. As long as you have a decent grasp on the spec you’re playing and how it works, you can get surprisingly far. Obviously that’s as long as you do the mechanics of whatever you’re fighting.
I personally dont like playing add ons. I always feel like if the player needs to install add ons or mods to make a game work better then the game is bad. I know some people love to be able to customize things. I feel like they should give us more customisation options built into the game and then just straight up bans add ons.
If add ons or mods are basicly required to make your game fun/work then the game is badly designed/made