For somebody who tries to relearn PvP from its roots with WMP, I’ve looked into multiple win conditons like cross CC setups, attrition gameplay, mana advantage/dampening, chain CC on healers (with DR overlap), CC pressure (roughly on CD, without DR overlap). It appears to be difficult to evaluate the success of different strategies meanwhile there are fundaental mistakes done over and over that none of the strategy has been successfully applied.
To get a better grip on different situations while analysing my own/teams gameplay, I would like to prepare my expectations of what should each player do in a certian situation to actually know what I should look for while analysing. I figure it helpful to simulate/theory craft an “ideal” arena scenario to match or vary cooldowns to look for advantages/threats.
Is there any programm, addon, weakaura, site out there with which I can simulate/theory craft an arena match by ordering various spells in a time line, at best with DR’s, Cooldowns, and Buff/Debuff uptimes?
I do not know “honorbuddy”. Usually I would use a pencil and a paper to streamline my thoughts on a match but it is hard to switch things up or is time-efficient to write weakauras for every important spell by hand.
I do not look for anything which provides me a correct answer, rather a surface which enables me to go other different thoughts without much effort.
edit: to make this clear: I mean a with a programm something similar to SimCraft where only the knowledge gain has an impact on the actual game.
There’s no such thing for PvP, because players aren’t programmed bots that can be simulated. The potential variables are too many. Each moment presents itself with several different options for each player in the match, and the “priorities” are never static.
It’s true that there’s a “scripted” level of gameplay where people in general know what to expect, but that isn’t until the very high rated and you still need to know how to deal with events outside of the scripted level in order to reach the scripted level. And even then, there are options in how some people play.
You’ve fundamentally misunderstood the nature of PvP gameplay design.
Pretty sure what you are asking for can be done with weakaura (at least most of it) but on the other hand you kinda ask to skip the entire player skill part and basically make X glow to press button Y.
I do not think so, e.g. Xaryu said that arenas are played like a script and what team better plays it out, will win at the end.
When I look into AWC matches, it is a push and retreat in terms of cooldown with subsequent goals like positional advantage, mana advantage, where e.g. starting a drink forces a warrior to use 2 mobility abilities to stop it which makes the team unable to chase the mage that allows him fake/cast sheeps that forces out a shear and a grounding totem. That allows a rather free combust which has to be answered with astral shift. So in the end the start of a drink and the forced stop enabled the trade of combustion and astral shift in time. By no means you can catch such entailments by only watching, you rather need to understand at what point you make progress or fall behind in your goals/subsequent goals.
I do not ask for a script of players but rather a surface for a flow chart or something with which I can analyze an optimal trade cooldowns in various situations. E.g. if the enemies have to much uptime on the mage, I as somebody who does not play mage, needs to understand in what situations the mage has gaps in mobility to preemptively negate large damage, rather than trying to recover from it.
Over all it gives you an idea which subsequent goals are worthful to strive for, once you’ve combined the individuals struggles and advantages.
You basically want the experience, knowledge and some part of skill, packed in a weakaura?
I am honestly not really sure what you are looking for or what the actual question is.
In Warcraftlogs there is an option called “events”, it shows each spell people do. Now customize it to only cooldowns you actually find worthful and tack all players with it. Then an option to switch out certain spells to reconfigure the fight/simulate it to see where you build an advantage like being able for a ‘go’ and both interrupts are on cooldown or something like it.
That way I can plan/build with subsequent goals for situations like where I need those. The best players have done it all by raw playing and adapting to it. E.g. Maro understands when the enemy team is out of stops so he fake casts sheep till Shadow Word: Death is out and then goes for a full sheep that requires larger cooldowns and a deny of the resheep to follow.
I, myself, do not think I make large progress in my gameplay and I am a theoretical-thinker anyways. With just playing and looking the replay, I would not catch the importance of a full sheep there while in other situations a half sheep is fine e.g. because a mayor cooldown/positional advantage/stops are about to recover otherwise. Basicly the game is too fast for me that I do not know in each situations what is the most crucial thing to look at. I try to gain that skillset through analysation.
Ok so you basically do want the experience, knowledge and skill packed into an addon
There are few ways that might help you:
Get used to the pace and get some xp in 2s
Rewatch all of your matches (even the ones you won, just to see what you could have done better)
Get coached by a better player
(Doesn’t have to be for gold or money. Maybe you know a guy, got one in a guild or someone on the forums is willing to help?)
It sounds like you got the basics, so get your ui clean, get the must have pvp addons, set up your omni bars without too much information and create yourself “check points”. What I mean by that is basically “rotating” a circle on your ui. As a healer I check my ui clockwise starting with own cds -> health (party frames) -> health / dr enemy team -> enemy team cds -> back to my cds and so on
Make yourself a game plan and try to execute it, analyze it after the game and see what could have been done different. WoW is indeed kinda predictable and repetitive, rest is just practice.
I think I have checked already everything besides your last paragraph. You can see my UI at imgur com/a/ToHULrQ I categorized my omnibar for offensive cooldowns, control oriented cooldowns, interrupts, and defensive cooldowns.
My problem with it is that I can think of multiple ways to play matchups. I need deep knowledge to evaluate which to strive for and adapt my gameplan for it.
This is quite a lot of information you got there, do you really need all of that?
What I find bit “scuffed” is your omni bar on the bottom right. You got enemy cds kinda weirdly mixed. Like wings, turtle, roots for example. Idk if it works for you, personally I’d struggle and waste time looking for what I am actually looking for. On top of that some of them are repeated by gladius ex.
Also, remember: Your plan is quite simple as a healer.
You are offering 1-2 ccs (hoj + blinding light/rep) which you use when your dps mates ask for it. All you need to do is basically to position yourself properly when the dr on these ccs is going off.
I’d say there is not much help you could get in the way you look for it. It’s basically all team coordination and experience in the end.
It works as a defensive cooldowns. Since you can’t seperate Wings of Holy and Ret Pallys to my knowledge, they are doubled as offensive and defensive.
Since both other players rather played PvE and I am the only one with a longer PvP background (back from TBC/Wotlk). The team struggles at fundamentals like providing proper calls over the matches, work towards 'go’s, apply cross cc simultaniously, deny 'go’s properly, positional mishabits, and so on. To actually regain the deep knowledge of the setups to provide actual worthful advices, I need to think for the team rather than my personal performance.
arena is partly scripted and so is chess for example but the every game is still different and you need to adapt to certain situations very fast.
Im gonna be honest you are trying to overcomplicate stuff. the most important thing is playing hundreds and thousands of games so you have the knowledge/experience to react properly in different situations. Of course some stuff is scripted like you want to AMZ every combust most of the time as a DK team for example but you learn stuff like that the best when playing yourself or watching others play.
I think you can build forced moves like in chess which line leads to a goal you strive for. For this to happen you need trade cooldowns (like pieces) e.g. with an cross CC opener that forces atleast a trinket. The opener and the respond is pretty much a script and a way to brute force others while you have a cooldown advantage is pretty much an endgame-script. In between it is conditional, but the more you play to an optimum, the more it becomes clear which moves are viable and which are not, when propely responded. Like in chess there is no forced mate from turn 1 but 'go’s in wow follow different scripts to be able to succed if organized. Otherwise you would only play on the mistakes of others.
One of the most crucial things for us is like to apply cross CC or finding ways to bait out the Grounding Totem such that the enemies do not have a simple answer to combustion. Thinking from the back-end, I have to think how I can deny by force/control the enemies capability to deny my goals. This leads to how can I force interrupts, stuns, “easy” defensives before the actual go in time that I do not miss too much of the time-window that I build a cooldown advantage… in terms my strategy actually is to play for a cooldown advantage.
I get the comment that I “overcomplicate stuff” alot but also often, days, weeks, months, years later, the complicate stuff turns out to be a very use tool. From my perspective it is like math, very useful once developed but abstract and uncomfortable while learning it.
This arena version of warcraftlogs is better for analysation than for strategy planning and it misses features like to track specific categories of spells but it looks like a useful tool (especially the replay function). Thanks for sharing.
If Im right OP looks for a site where you can SIM player vs player cases but its just not possible because you cant simulate human factor. AI is still a huge thing worldwide and its still under development. What I can suggest is keep doing what you do. Spam games, record them and try out some new tax in the next games. Top players did this in the past or someone teached them. But they dont have to do it anymore because patches and expansion dont change that much and they have to learn the new things added to the old things. But very top players still watch back their games (many many streamer including whazz, dilly, xar etc talked about it) and they still try to find a good script against counter comps.
But probably you will never experience too much succes with this method because you still have 2 other partner who dont give a f about scripts and they just zug zug forward absorbing double the damage they should and blaming you for ooming out or wasting def cds.
