That is the same excuse everyone in Horde will continue to use in the future, first it was all Garrosh, now it is all Sylvanas’ fault. Regardless many Horde members have sided willingly with Sylvanas, which is theoretically 50% of the Horde. I wonder how we will punish them.
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If horde would have a choice, we would choose other warchief, Sylvanas is poor representation of what horde truly is. We have already proven that we aren’t with her giving you Derek for example.
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End the political institution called the Horde. Remove its system of government. Set up a new system and some safeguards to prevent the old system from reforming. If need be, leave an occupying force there. Set a cap on the amount of soldiers they are allowed to train. Maybe even recruit some of its members into the Alliance itself. It has happened often enough iRL.
No one cares if Tauren and Trolls live peacefully within their borders. But it is very much unacceptable for them to form a military alliance that can rival the Alliance ever again.
That would be the idea behind dismantling the Horde.
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If that’s true I wish Blizz did a better job of showing it. There’s also a good number of Horde players who seem to disown just about anyone who isn’t genocidal towards the Alliance.
Can we just skip this expansion already? Chromie can sort us out, right?
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All in all we should take care of our planet Azeroth, we must unite if there are so much threat from outer space / alter time.
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Very well said gnome, however I feel with the current state of the Alliance and the large amount of casualties this is very theoretical.
How can they leave an occupying force on multiple continents? and many kingdoms of the Horde?.
You are incorrect, Blizzard stated themselves that Sylvanas has the people’s vote, they all listen to her, which means the Horde is even more guilty.
Well, yeah, but the scenario where we are discussing Horde extinction is one where the Alliance is clearly on top anyway, isn’t it?
You really don’t need to, though. Reforming the Horde is not a thing that can easily be done in secret. You don’t have to prevent them from doing anything, you just have to keep enough there to protect the people who are responsible for making sure that the conditions the Alliance put on the former peoples of the Horde are met. If they are broken, the usual diplomatic ways of dealing with it, up to restarting the war, are applicable.
They don’t have to be Alliance vassal states. It is enough if they stay seperate states that couldn’t stand up against the united Alliance.
Edit:
I’ll add: It wouldn’t be clear to me that the peoples of the former Horde would really want to reform the Horde, especially in the same constellation. Would the Tauren invite the Forsaken again? Especially if the Alliance victory hasn’t led to too much disruption of Tauren life? Would the Trolls? The Orcs? The situation has vastly changed over the decades.
Horde is no more braindead savages looking for bloodshed everywhere they can. We understand what is going on, that alliance is equal to us and real threat if we are vs each other. We can’t stop following orders of that B… Witch, we would be behaded for that. We must act as we are following her, but it’s not our intention.
Now now, don’t be petty, comparisons and metaphor are tools of language for a reason, it is not as if I invented them now is it?
As to the OP, its a tricky one, and mileage may vary depending on race/circumstance.
As a Human, it is perhaps the most variable of all, do you remember the original sack of Stormwind? You probably want every one of those motherless green dogs dead. Were you from Lordaeron? Trickier, the Forsaken are a vile thing that stops you going home, and yet…some of them were your friends, your neighbours, it is just good luck that you are not one of them.
Dwarf? You don’t really have that much of, heh, an axe to grind. You’ve shown your race can accept back into the fold dire enemies who have plagued you a lot longer than the Horde ever did.
Gnomes? Why would they, they’re creatures of logic, and the only reason they hate the Horde is because they are part of the Alliance, the Horde has done absolutely zilch to annoy the Gnomes.
Draenei? Ehhh, they’d have reason, the Sunhawks did invade their crash site (Just saying, thats Sunhawks, not Sun Hawks, we have no particular beef with Draenei 
) but at the same time they are level headed people, they know that the Sunhawks branch of the Sunfury are no more Horde, than Kil’jaeden and Archimonde were Alliance, they just happened to be the same species.
Kaldorei and Worgen? As things stand right now? Oh heck yes, kill ‘em, Kill ‘em all stone dead.
Lightforged Draenei? Ehhh, thats a lot of Light worshippers you’d be killing, although they do seem somewhat fanatical, and not necessarily as rational as normal Draenei (I mean come on, T’paartos, never take a people’s moral barometer as a serious gauge when they allow someone into their Elite who talks about themselves in the Third Person)
Void Elves? Depends how far they have gone. Apparently pretty far, given the things they are willing to do. Perverting religions and raising the dead, infusing them with Old God Powers? These are people who have left morality so far behind they can’t even see it in the rear view mirror, and make most Horde races bar the Forsaken look like Boy Scouts in comparison. They’ll do whatever their real masters want.
Then you have to look at the flip side, Which races of the Horde would your average Alliance person consider to be evil?
Orcs? Yeah, I can see a case for that. They’re constantly starting wars, and the calmer heads amongst the race are the few, not the majority.
Trolls? I can see that to an extent, though it would mean a bit of a paradigm shift for the Alliance into being a bit racisty, The Darkspear for example, are physically and socially different from other Trolls, and are not cannibals. It depends what distinction your average Alliance member makes when they think of ‘Trolls’
Tauren? To be honest, wanting the Tauren eradicated would be an evil act. You could uproot the Tauren, root and branch, and transplant them into the Alliance,and they would not feel out of place. They have a capacity for violence, when provoked, but they do not seek such provocation. Any Alliance member who sought the destruction of the Tauren is probably not the sort of person you would trust to look after your pets, or children, or indeed anything where a moral compass is needed.
Forsaken? Yeah. Fair Cop. I mean I don’t even know why the -Horde- still put up with them. They’re a mini Zombie Apocalypse smart enough to have self determination, but not smart enough to realise that everything they do just drives more and more people to hate them. You would have thought such a clinical detachment from the Flesh would make someone a -bit- more self aware as to what they are doing. Seems not.
Blood Elves? Ehhh, I don’t know, how do you feel about killing someone over their dietary choice? (Lets not bring Fel into this, the Fel Crystals held the floaty buildings up, they were not a food source, we see what an Elf who drains Fel looks like, and it does not look like a Blood Elf). I mean thats what it is. The High Elves are Mana Vegans, the Blood Elves are Mana Omnivores. It is diet. Is killing someone over their diet evil? Pretty much fricking YES!. I know people wanted their World War II reference, so I shall not disappoint, but Killing someone who believes in the same deity/power source that you do, but has a different diet is the sort of thing the chap with a silly moustache did in the 1930’s/40’s.
Clumsily shoehorned in, and I’m not even fond of the metaphor, but logically true. Blood Elven State Religion is The Holy Light. They have a different diet to High Elves, or did, for a time, now they’re the same.
Goblins? They’re greedy, not Evil. I mean the second in command of SI:7 is a Goblin, so it would be a weird twist to suddenly decide they deserve wiping out. I mean to quote Anduin “They’re not the most charming of people” But then that isn’t the same as being actively malevolent. Pursuing their destruction, would by any common moral scale, be evil.
Highmountain Tauren? Same as regular Tauren, what possible reason would anyone have to destroy them.
Shal’dorei? Likewise. They hid themselves away from the rest of the world, whoop de doo, know who else did that? The rest of the Kaldorei.
Zandalari? Trickier. I think it depends upon your past experiences, a Blood Elf or SIlver Covenant High Elf who fought on the Isle of Thunder is likely to have a different view than most, given that they have been in recent conflict with Zandalari, but they haven’t done anything …wrong….apart from being a foreign power who sometimes is belligerent, and sometimes just minds its own business.
So it really does vary, in some cases the destruction of Horde Races is absolutely understandable, in some cases it is less understandable, and in some cases it is actively ‘evil’. People keep saying they want the Alliance to go a bit darker, but I don’t think they really do, given that Blizzard aren’t good at nuanced thinking. They’d basically slam the brakes on, pull a U-turn and accelerate to maximum velocity on the atrocity train (So pretty much standard Horde level of writing)
Bluntly, there is not a way for the Alliance to butcher the Horde, without becoming the Horde. It’s the Nietzsche quote basically “He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you”
In gunning for all out destruction? The Alliance would become just as dreadful as the Horde, and the whole point of the Faction is that they are -not- as dreadful as the Horde.
Also someone -PLEASE- buy the writers at Blizzard a Thesaurus! Whenever big speeches are made about defeating the enemy, every time the word ‘Dismantle’ turns up! That word does not mean what you think it does! ‘Dismantle der Hurde!’ What, do you mean physically take away their methods of survival, thus ensuring that they immediately go back to war for resources? Or do you mean separating them into their component parts, which…they already are anyway, or do you mean take all their clothes off? I mean Kinky, but hey…
Blizzard are -way- too fond of that word, and every time they have used it, they have used it incorrectly.
Oh, whilst we’re at it, if someone could take away the copy of ‘Lord of the Rings’ that seems to be the cafeteria literature at Blizz HQ, that would be great, that way we get less pathetic Aragorn and Arwen knock offs. Either that or just Delete the Windrunners. Either works.
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Having a fleet left, however small it might be, is much better than not having a fleet left at all, which is the case of the Horde.
coughs Quel’thalas with its intact fleet says ‘Hi!’
Give Thrall his powers back and add Vol’jins spirit and Talanji to the roster. Then it’s an even fight.
If that’s the case…
Kul Tiras, Ironforge, The Kaldorei, the Aurobos, and the Vindicaar say “Hi!”.
Only the Zandalari fleet was decimated. The Horde fleet is just fine. In fact its the Horde fleet on the Horizon that Captain sees and tells to Jaina she has no hope.
So pretty sure Horde fleet reinforcements are just fine
Both fleets are decimated.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Missing_Crew
I can’t believe it. Almost the entire fleet… lost!
We need to have ships out there on missions supporting our efforts, but how am I supposed to do that now?
Horde and Alliance naval officers say this. Both fleets are RIP.
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You… do realize that the entire point of going to Zandalar is to get an actual fleet, right?
Horde and Alliance naval officers say this. Both fleets are RIP.
Except, you know, for the fact that the Alliance fleet doesn’t necessarily include the Kul Tiran fleet (the two terms are often keep separated) and it is factually proven that only a fraction of the Kul Tiran fleet fell in Nazjatar…
Yes, I can. For me it didn’t happen. It just doesn’t exist. As I already said, I don’t play WoW after 4.2 and I don’t consider WoW after 4.2 as part of Warcraft. I don’t care what you or Blizzard say because you’re part of a lore that I do not consider canon.
MoP being an expansion centered around Asian customers (which actually worked). Garrosh time-travelling and then teaching his father how to build tanks, trains, cannons, machine guns etc. The Warlords of Draenor actually being the bad guys just because we need more content and therefore we need to demonize something before we reach the endgame with Sargeras. After we reached that, we’ll just demonize Sylvanas - no problem, have her burn a tree for no reason, have her oppose Saurfang and the “Horde ways”. Meanwhile, throughout all these years Jaina has been suffering from guilt over her father’s death, so she decides to blow the steam off the Horde’s direction (sounds like one of those books my grandma reads). Bla bla bla…
I can go on about how bad lore has been in this game for days, but you just won’t get it.
It’s nothing but boiling drama and demonizing characters for the sake of content. If you see it as anything more than that, then I’m sorry.
And the reason I returned to this thread is because one of you butthurt millennials actually reported my first post, where I gave an extreme yet correct example of what exterminating the Horde would be like IRL - and I’ll write it again.
Exterminating the Horde is like executing former convicts of heavy crime, killing formerly-active-but-now-reformed Al-Qaeda members, or killing previously-troublesome-but-now-integrated refugees.
If you don’t like the truth, you can report my post again - this will just prove my point.
I’m keeping this thread on Muted, by the way.
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And there is a bigger number, that opposes both Baine and Saurfang because they offer alternatives that would inevitably lead to the faction playing second fiddle to the Alliance.
Because there is a middle ground between genocidal maniac and spineless patsy.
And position oneself against the later, doesn’t mean they support the former.
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You understand that there may be opposition on the Horde side against our “extermination”? Why, how thoughtful of you 
No, the Alliance would never harm innocents… what’s that fairytale that you’re living in? Not WoW obviously. Night Elves, Kul Tirans, Dwarves have been trying to wipe out various Troll tribes for years. Do you think no children or civilians were harmed there? Dream on.
Difference being that those resistance members intended to end the war, not prolong it at the expense of their own men. Something that Baine is willing to accept when he returns Derek to Jaina, despite his good intentions and desire for peace.
According to Aatsui, Sylvanas never cared about the Golden Fleet. Her “clever” plan was to weaken the Zandalari to force them into an alliance with the Horde, and then use them as meatshields in the war against the Alliance.
Nessor: Doesn’t accept lore after 4.0 because “it’s terrible”.
Also Nessor: Accepts the lore of TBC, which was garbage, and WotLK, which repeatedly retconned the Lich King’s identity and turned him into an idiot.
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