To anyone claiming the map is “fair” just draw a line from the Horde’s spawn point to the Alliance base and use the same line from the Alliance spawn to the Horde base and see how much you have to add.
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And in other news that’s not been said for months?
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I wonder if that’s the tune you’d have if it was your faction that had the disadvantage? O wait I don’t have to wonder. When the Horde lost one AV the Horde flooded the forums. They got what they wanted but the back door for the Alliance base is still wide open.
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I play both sides. I don’t even have a horde 60 yet, but ive won more AV on my horde lowbie than my ally 60. Its just not NEW news.
Yes it’s not. Apparently we have to keep bringing it up. AV is unplayable.
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if the map was reversed horde would still win because alliance players are defeatists that don’t play to win.
on launch: alliance won every single AV in 7 minutes (mostly due to premades)
now: alliance lose every single match.
yeah im sure its the map that has magically changed, rather than the players’ attitude and morale.
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You are so deluded horde would 100% lose most their AVs if positions got switched around.
You think that rolling a faction pressing the same 5 buttons makes you more skilled that opposing faction is laughable.
Attitude and morale on Allience is only low because of the map imbalance just same as horde had the give up mentality Vs the Allience premades since if they really wanted they could have turtled back then and the premades would have not been getting the 7 minute wins
People rarely cry for no reason just look back at posts when Allience where premading the forum was filled with horde tears now look now with the map imbalances it’s Allience tears if you agree that Allience premading was unfair then on other side of the coin it’s clear as day the map has a huge horde advantage. Swapping the maps every game is an easy solution to the problem but horde are scared to queue for such a long time for a 95% to lose if the map was more balanced your queues would be shorter
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Just asking for a friend …
… what is balanced in this game ?
If it was impossible for Alliance / Horde to win, that would be the problem.
The premades then cannot be compared to the pug groups now.
PREMADE AV
40 coordinated players all on voice chat from the start, start up buffs, instant lead calls, balanced team with healers, tanks and dps, no afkers/leechers/botters, 100% mounts, more serious ranking/pvp players with an understanding of game mechanics etc
vs
PUG AV
40 uncoordinated players at the start, approx 10ish players (many times can be more) will be botters/afkers/leechers, lead (if there is a lead) has to type calls, barely any buffing at start, mix of 100 and 60% mounts which creates a gap between the raid which horde can easily exploit (even more so due to their starting cave being closer to mid giving horde control of the mid at the very start), little to no serious rankers.
If we take the above two out of the equation and put the map down to raw numbers, such as how long it takes from horde to reach IB Gy compared to how long Alliance take to get to to SH GY, or even the starter caves to the field of strife. At a pure mathematical level, the map favours horde in many ways.
One of the reasons the premades occurred was because of the above. Not the only reason, but one of many.
So, when the premade part of the equation was taken out when Blizz implemented the AV change, the maps disadvantages exasperated the decline on the alliance side. Which is another reason why now the alliance players in AV are expecting the loss and put no effort in.
It takes an awful lot of effort to overcome the hordes map advantages, the afkers/bots, the demoralised mindset, and to a lesser extent horde racials. The obstacles for alliance are much more numerous than the horde obstacles. Hence the bitterness.
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That’s the way the next-level incompetents responsible for this game want it. They are not bold enough to make decisions and not smart enough to make the right decisions.
90% win-rate for horde is what they are happy with. Back in the day when pugs with discord (or, “premades” as the whiny sore-winners liked to call them) the win rate for alliance was never higher than 40% on average.
Sure, some stompy pugs with discord were all engineers with flasks and had amazing win rates but the average pug with discord never won more than 40% of their games.
Horde was also doing their rush game and still won most of their games. Alliance NEVER exceeded 50% win rte across the board.
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Another factor however is the queue times.
As with hindsight we have realised that faster games is more profitable when ranking. Unlike our early days where you had server based battlegroups and games which lasted for many many hours, some even into days we didn’t realise that this was detrimental to our honour/ranking gains.
Back when i was on Runetotem realm, it was majority alliance populated, our queue times were in the hours for AV, we also had like what felt like a 90% win rate back then.Whilst horde had instant queue times on that server due to the ratio imbalance.
So there is the factor that because we as Alliance now have battlegrounds in abundance, we don’t mind the loss as much we can instantly join another. Unlike the horde who have the downtime of queuing in between BG’s and thus are far more determined to make each game count and maximise the honour gain.
Also that instant queues makes botting and afking far easier than the alternative.
The map is certainly balanced in favour of the horde team. The only changes i would like to see is the cave moved back like it is in retail. And the backdoors to both alliance and horde bases to be removed. Both changes i believe are reasonable. As one is a jump ‘exploit’ bypassing the maps designers intended routes, and the second being a general oversight which was corrected in later patches due to the fact that it gave Horde starting advantage.
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What’s worse though is that it’s not incompetence on the Devs’ part, it’s a thought through thing in order to maximize Classic money making which is “play time”.
The larger faction with longer queue times gets to win a lot so they want to play the game and the long wait times ensure that they will need to play a lot in order to get the honor/rep needed.
The smaller faction with nearly instant queues gets to lose almost every match so that they won’t be able to get the honor/rep needed if not by keep queueing over and over and over because they need every inch of the day in order to stay competitive or not having to wait months for the reputation rewards.
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It’ll be fix in TBC Classic.
I doubt Blizzard will do something about it.
All the “changes” they have made so far were disabling/increasing/reducing some datas but nothing like moving a cave on the 3D’s environnement.
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I know, it’s not like they ALREADY have the asset
We would be happier with either the old AV (which would make honor gaining also more balanced around the BGs and stop leechers in AV that would need to stay on for HOURS) and/or fixing the freaking backdoor by putting an invisible wall or making it lethal like they did in WSG.
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The only way to know that is if the map is BALANCED and it’s not. Also how typical of your type of Horde player to result to petty insults and avoid the issue with grandstanding.
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The main problem why Alliance can’t do anything in AV is not the map, it’s the Alliance itself. Most Alliance players are PvE players entering AV in PvE spec with PvE gear (hello 2500 HP mages in Bloodvine or Clothadins) to get rep for PvE items. On Horde side are way more players who are at least PvP geared and way more are PvP specc’ed and they know how to PvP so they just melt Alliance.
The typical Alliance mage with Bloodvine and 2500 HP is frostbolting in the back before he gets oneshotted by every class while 5 Horde mages blink in, frostnova and AoE/Iceblook 30 Alliance down who can’t manage to kill the mages in their backline. That is the sad truth. I’ve played many AVs and in rare occasions where Alliance is better geared or specc’ed they actually can manage to win, but that is just rarely the case.
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Look like some of you forget things as fast as possible…
First months of AV : Alliance winrate = 90%. Nothing changed between then.
Ho nvm… Horde have to wait 45m-1h to get into AV, so they try harder to win.
I refer you to this post
The premade composition back then was VERY different to the composition we have now. I was in those AV premades, i join premades now, both with the servers serious ranking and with the more casuals that premade, i also join solo too. So i think i have a good overall view of the quality of the players.
Those wins in the early days, Horde did not know alliance tactics, you didn’t know about the hiding spots, you were slow to react. After a short whilst, you wised up to a strat, and a new strat was born. We exhausted all the various routes and hiding spots etc. Horde have realised now that the meta is to take SH GY at all cost, block up the choke point by the IW bunker, and have the remaining lot pick at the alliance who did get through. Whilst you may be able to brute force through with a coordinated team, with the pug/afkers/bots/leech players we have in AV now, that no chance.
So your post is completely and fundamentally wrong 
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Ok you walked into that one…
One - Alliance never had a win rate of 90%.
Two - The Horde could make premades as well just not as efficiently as the Alliance.
Three - This has NOTHING to do with the fact that the map is NOT balanced and is in favor of the Horde so don;t change the subject.
Four - The Horde cried so much about Alliance winning that the game was changed to counter that. And that was people in Discord going 1… 2… 3… GO.
Five - Cry me a river for the wait times. You are part of the overpopulated faction. You enjoy a lot of benefits. Open world domination. More people to group up with. A more stable economy and more. But lets glance over that because you have some drawbacks. The arrogance…
Six - No mention of the back door that gets exploited EVERY SINGLE GAME and was NOT fixed despite the fact that it is an EXPLOIT and it tips the scales even more in your faction’s favor. But you benefit from that so…
Seven - EVERY SINGLE TIME valid points are brought up Horde players come out of the wood work to change the subject or deflect.
Eight - Your faction is so used to having the upper hand that the very though of an even playing field is so shocking that it’s inconceivable to you. How dare the Alliance players want a fair game of pvp?! BLIZZARD DO SOMETHING!!!1!!ONE!!
Give me a break.
And that’s not all Horde players. The faction has very decent people as well but by virtue of sheer numbers the faction has a ton of hypocrites as well. And yes Alliance has bad players as well just to be clear.
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