Battlegrounds without stuns?

[Avalan-azuremyst]

Blizzdevs, I just wonder if it would ever be possible to have Battlegrounds without stuns, even if only 1 day a week, so that people actually have to engage in fighting. I mean, from my point of view and the servers I play on, I think 90% of horde would likely rage quit if you ever did it, but it would be nice not to have some cretin put their ridiculously long stun on you and then simply just hit you when you can’t fight back, especially when they are a lvl 60 who has specifically joined with a sub level 60 friend, as it’s no secret that the “scaling down” is something of a joke, especially when your character is something like level 53. I mean, I know that “fairness” is and never has been a thing with BG’s as they are the go-to part of the game where life’s failures gather to feel good about themselves (with their long stuns and non scaled down gear). Sure, we all like to feel special once in a while, but maybe, once, just once a week, let’s make these people actually work for their “glory”

PS: I know it’ll never happen, like winning the lottery, but one can dream

[Mirianea-outland]

This is absolutely great idea, but not stuns only all cc and interrupts. And easy to make, just disable cc skills in bg. This would be a special bg week.

[Avalan-azuremyst]

I’d love it and it would renew my enthusiasm 110% because right now, it just feels like many people are being set up as canon fodder for the sheer pleasure of undesirables.

[Obilot-argent-dawn (Obilot)]

All stuns needs to be nerfed to last only 2 seconds, or break on damage.

[Avalan-azuremyst]

That would also be a great idea.

[Woade-silvermoon]

Great for a healer to stand and free cast all game. Yes.

Great for a mage to stand and free cast all game. Yes.

Great for melee being kited around or depending on a cc / interupt / stun to secure a kill? No

[Classicos-turalyon]

Maybe into a brawl perhaps?

[Dezi-amanthul]

nothing would die, EVER

while stuns and ccs are obviously annoying and sometimes they get over hand in bgs, they are needed.

If we ever had a brawl like that, you would need to lower healing by 50% as well or remove healers/tank queue

[Zhoru-argent-dawn]

Also no healing or damage! Why do we have to fight? We can be friends.

[Aohodyan-quelthalas]

People always adapt to the ‘current stuff’ so they can’t imagine how it could be different, and defend status quo.

It’s like people have no imagination on how things could be better.

I realize that there’s some kind of need to deal with healers - sure. But that doesn’t mean Blizz couldn’t at least try and experiment with all kinds of ideas. Instead of philosophy, then we’d have concrete evidence that we can point to and say “Look, this doesn’t work!”

It’s not a matter of ‘stuns’ vs. ‘no-stuns whatsoever’.

You can tweak and adjust things.

Let’s say stuns were NERFED to a logical level. You could still stun a healer, but you can’t just stungank someone easily anymore.

After being stunganked by a rogue so many times I was about to tear my hairs out (they just won’t touch rogue’s CC at all, it seems, and it’s alway so OP and it can stab you to death so quickly, and there’s nothing you can do - at least as shaman).

Many people have experienced that the CC is just too much. It’s not that it’s not needed at all, but it’s not tactical, it’s just bruteforcing someone to death when they can’t even do anything.

This doesn’t seem fair, it’s not a good or tactical game mechanic, it doesn’t require intelligence, skill or knowledge, it’s just brutal beating up of someone helpless. It’s basically a form of bullying a helpless victim.

Especially when horde group is almost always more powerful than ally group (this still hasn’t been fixed for some reason - why does this kind of favoritism exist in a game that should be fair and equal?), it’s very frustrating to be ganked by something you can’t do anything about, be it an OP melee group zerging everything or an OP rogue that just keeps you in stun while your HP almost instantly disappears.

(and don’t tell me rogues aren’t OP anymore, I realize they have probably been nerfed a bit, but clearly not enough - NERF THEIR CC at least properly so they can’t just cap flags with 7-second stun when you have already trinketed one stun - what’s the point of giving ANYONE 14-second stun ability when you die in 2 seconds (or less)?)

My ideas about CC have been numerous, and other people have had really good ideas about it also. Blizz doesn’t seem to listen.

Here are some ‘CC variations’ that might improve the game:

• Have diminishing returns, PROPER DR - if something stuns you, you can’t be stunned again for however many seconds (experimentation here would be interesting).

• Your stun is the same for everyone, it’s precious, valuable asset that you REALLY have to think about when or how to use it - making the game more tactical. You can’t use your only stun again for a really long time when you use it, so you have to be completely and utterly intelligent about it. Players having to be careful when to use a stun would enhance the tactical nature of the BGs a lot.

• Multiple stuns would not work - if one stun is applied, another player’s stun has no effect whatsoever, so you can’t just keep someone in stun - when the stun is over, it’s over

• A group couldn’t gank you - if a group stuns you, you’d have some kind of ‘lessened damage’ or something - it’s just unfair to be beaten by a big group like schoolyard bullies beating a nerd. It’s just not right. At least you could reflect the stun back to the whole group or something, so even they would have to be careful. Or a group stunning someone would remove everyone’s stun ability for a long time, that participates in the beating up. Some kind of ‘punishment’ for such a group could happen, making it again more tactical.

There are SO many problems with imbalance in BGs, shamans being really weak, rogues being really OP, melee having too much power against casters (at least warlock and priest), but then OP firemages also having too much mobility and chase ability - how often can you really escape a firemage? Probably as often as you can survive a rogue. It happens, but it’s pretty darn rare unless you have super good mobility, etc.

I was ganked by a rogue in Gilneas, I used glider from graveyard to LH, and the rogue was still -instantly- at me. This needs to stop, rogues don’t need to be THAT fast, for crying out loud. Blizz nerfed speed a lot, but not ROGUE speed for some reason. Why is it so hard for them to just make rogues the same level as any other class? It’s like they can’t help wanting to keep it OP somehow.

Make rogues have a weakness that makes it possible to AT LEAST escape a rogue when it starts stunganking you, or damage it or CC it or something.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand… there are many ideas about CC nerfing and changing how stuns and everything works, I realize it would change the whole ‘healer’ dynamic, but why not also experiment with that a bit?

Why even have healers in BGs to begin with? It’s not a dungeon or raid. Just let all BGs be without healers, then we’ll see who punches the hardest, and who punches first…

I would love if skill was more involved in BGs instead of gear, but some people seem to be very afraid of that ever happening, and Blizz has lost its vision that it once had (remember when they made actual GOOD choices, like PROPER PvP vendors, PvP gear trumping PvE gear always in duels, BGs, fights, etc… these were good things)

Anyway, there are lots and lots of good ideas that could refresh the stale and stuffy BG scene a lot, if there was enough will, Blizz could use the whole ‘brawl’ thing (and bring it to lower levels, too - there’s no real reason for keeping it level 60 when they still allow covenant powers in lower brackets anyway) to EXPERIMENT with all kinds of good ideas for different types of BGs.

In some BGs, you could maybe fly? In others, you could have no CC whatsoever. Some BGs would not allow healers to join. Another BG would have 100% equal gear for everyone, and stats wouldn’t even exist, so everyone’s punching power would be the same, and every class would have an instant punch that does the same, exact damage. Then we’d see whot he best players are instead of who grinded raids the most or whose daddy is the richest.

Anyway, there have been tons of good ideas, this post is only about just poking people’s brains a bit so they can start thinking outside the box and brainstorming all kinds of stuff, it’s not about listing all possible ideas, just throwing a few ideas into the mix. and hoping someone will get inspired by this.

Still, why not experiment? BGs are so awful now anyway, you can’t really lose anything by experimenting with ideas like nerfing CC, DK pull (and such things) and rogue CC abilities and stealth. AND SPEED.

[Avalan-azuremyst]

Some very good and valid points there. On the subject of Horde bias, I’ll probably get cancelled for speaking some truth here, but hey, having played this game for many, many years it became common knowledge that Blizzard were definitely biased towards horde, it stemmed from the early days when not many people played horde, so some “incentives” were given (on some realms / countries more than others) but I’m not sure that those incentives ever actually ceased. Of course the idea is ridiculed by some, simply because that is not their experience (or it is but they don’t want it to be exposed) like I said, on some realms / Countries more so than others. You constantly hear “Alliance suck at BG’s” but do they really. Is it really possible over a period of many years for all alliance to “suck” at pvp, doesn’t ring true to me and many others, but some people just haven’t connected the dots.

Then there’s the BG’s in which well geared level 60 people are joining with a sub lvl 60 friend (cheap shot cheating basically). Just last night I was in a BG with one of my chars at lvl 57 and we faced multiple lvl 60 well geared horde, a druid in bear form with over 40K when most people in the sub level 60 bracket are sitting between 14-17k HP - On top of all that, it’s like they just can’t wait to cast those ridiculously long stuns on that nasty alliance person who might just hit us (can’t have that now can we) and whilst you are being 5 vs 1 group ganked and stunned, not able to retaliate, you have some healer healing said gank group, ya’know, just in case.

Like I said in my original post, fairness is severely lacking. I had hoped to see it addressed, but I suspect the powers that be know the kind of people they are catering for, so it ends up on the back-burner.