I like how you managed to turn the m+ “beta” from legion and turn it back into “alpha” for bfa. Everyone i’ve ever asked has said they enjoyed legion m+ tenfold compared to what we have currently.
I managed to pug myself up to 1.6k rio last season but i cant even be bothered with beguiling.
I cant come up with anything remotely as unfun as this.
Same here. The affix seems ‘unpuggable’. I try to get people use MDT and on voice. But it rarely happens. It requires just so much coordination that I am pretty done with it outside of doing it with friends 
It seems that they’ve gone WAY overboard with trying to slow down how fast a m+ should be done, by adding beguiling to replace reaping. It’s a good idea but very poorly introduced.
The random spawns together with how VERY punishing it is for anyone who might not be as experienced with +10 and above. Of course it shouldn’t be a walk in the park to get a weekly +10 done and to farm em. But it shouldn’t be incredible demoralizing that people only bother doing the weekly’s.
Whats so bad about this?
Burst the void emissary.
Root or cc the one that prevents interupts and stuns.
Knock back the one that reflects damage or taunt it to the side (it does hurt a bit)
3 simple adds, 3 simple rules. If something so simple has killed M+ for you then I don’t know what to say.
Some of their spawns are so absolutely terrible and inconvenient, though. I once had the void emissary positioned in such a way that my ignite was spreading from it to the neutral blobs nearby in Shrine of the Storm. Yaaaaay… who doesn’t love extra mobs being pulled onto the group and potentially wiping you.
I hate to break it to you but a lot of people were only doing m+ for the weekly anyway. Beguiling hasn’t really changed that. I personally still find it better than Reaping.
No offense but a few yellow mobs shouldn’t be what’s breaking the group’s back, considering they aren’t elites and don’t really have a lot of HP. Said blobs also don’t trigger a lot of the on-death effects (if any at all).
I recommend using the method dungeon tool to plan your route and know in advance where the more tricky emissaries are placed, its easier to deal with if u have a plan for it.
I wasnt a big fan of void heavy week combined with quaking, the quake and blast from void seemed to overlap very often, but it mostly went ok with a bit of planning (but i only play on a casual level though, so not very high keys).
What are you talking about, beguiling is easily top 3 seasonal affix.
Positioning of voids.
Freehold the one after the bridge to Harlan. It is in a patrol area. We pull single packs, so this void is blowing up our group. It is almost not able to LoS. Or halfway the bridge. The house does have somewhere a spot to LoS, but it is apparently really small. And again, we can not pull single pack since the void pulls the patrol when we take the pack back to the middle of the bridge.
Underrot void after 1st boss in the maggotticks pack is terrible. Not saying it is not doable, but it is a facepalm position. And the casts goes through almost the whole wall at the back where you THOUGHT you could LoS (bug?).
The Temple void after 1st boss in the middle of a big pack is also terrible.
Tides in UR before 3rd boss with the 2 defilers needs coordinating or it is just on any level from +10 a wipe.
Just a couple examples…
With my M+ group on voice it is all doable, but in pugs? No way. We can say don’t pug, but there are so many people doing that… including me since I do not have always my full group available. The affix is a pain.
In freehold warlock portal skip or dearh skip.
Underrot you just pick the other way or pulling away from void… Nonone said you should tank everything on void.
In temple you just pulling away or death run to the next boss.
In shrine that part is a deathrun or shroud skip
Easy solutions
We do not have a warlock. And what are our options when we do not have a brez? (not because of classes, or just not available)
In underrot the alternative is a pack of double swarmers with tides. Good luck especially with a pug. And pulling away is what we do but the cast goes through almost all the wall. LoS is not that clear there.
My consistent group is by the way guardian druid, hpala, 2 ret pala’s and a bm hunter. But this is actually not the worst since at least we have coordination. But deadskipping is terrible. And no shroud.
I think it is terrible that a dungeon is only doable when you have shrouds and deadskips available. You should be able to pull slow and get through a dungeon. Beguiling is preventing that on some specific points.
It’s not that it is particularly hard, but it is just so boring. It slows down the run and is just unfun. I get they wanted to get rid of the aoe fest that was reaping, but that was at least fun.
Facetank the damn mob. Its not dangerous and if it gets more than 2 casts off you really suck.
Waaa los? Run up and kill it. Job done. Dont tell me youre one of those pugs that makes itnlast 7 minutes because you keep running away?
So you have cr and also invi pots in the game. In underrot you can walk between tje packs without pulling any side. You can have enginering for other cr if u died. You should start thinking how to handle and stop complaining about" how you cant do this". For example you pull a pack and someone tount the tide away while u killing the dangerous mobs. Holy pala easily can handle the shield mob. At void you shoul watch out for possible loss and if u dont find any just pop cds
I am the healer that tries to communicate beforehand with pugs. With MDT about the route, with asking for voice, with coordinating interrupts and cc’s (for tides). My experience is by far worse this season than last. When a void is not blown up before 2nd cast, it is usually not my mistake. or when we get blown up by the 2 pack with the tides before mushroomboss, I can not help that. I just cant.
Then you just have rethink your strategy and make a routin plan for next run. Thats how it should work and you keep learning from ur mistakes and keep pushing further. thats why rio is a thing. Its help you fill the roaster. You can take ppls who also done this before.
Mainly i do some 10-13 keys before jumping into push. To see how can i handle pulls.
It would already be a victory when I get pugs on voice. MDT is the next step.
But I am burned out on this situation. I only play with my coordinated group now. And Netflix on evenings I do not get my group together.
Alot of people were, yes. But that number has increased with Beguiling, atleast in my circle of friends and m+ buddies.
As i mentied, Beguiling in concept is a great idea. In my opinion i just can’t help but feel incredibly demoralized because of it.
na not thet bad problem is thet ment as challge so i tink did good job theny add new affix 2 soon also come down players u pug if u heve bad players leech u pug well might aswell leave u own key
Death skip, shroud skip, shroud potion etc, should all be removed from dungeons and instead, the affixes should not make you require those tactics. Requiring specific classes or crafts should not be required for end-game content. Every class should be as viable. One solution is to give a lot of mobs (better) stealth detection in dungeons.