Blizzard should gate features behind player power, not time spent farming

Sort of, because we have to reevaluate the definition of reward here.
Looking back we got used to gear being, not only a tool that helps you defeat bosses, but also a shiny trophy you can show off outside the AH, this is how gear works in classic.
But now, beside transmog having an effect on how gear is viewed by other players, we got more prestige rewards, like titles, mounts, which are for showoff purposes only. In a way i think it might be better this way cause these lasts forever, while gear is made obsolete in months. Nobody cares what gear you have back in vanilla when you killed C’thun, but a scarab lord title is easily recognizable.

Naah.

You may have figured out what bothers you, what makes you “consistently unhappy about how Blizzard releases systems and rewards”, but that doesn’t apply to anyone else.

I, for example, don’t relate to your statement at all.

I can name, point by point, what I don’t respect about various game systems, from the very basic ones to the ephemeral, just-for-one-patch systems. You know what? Nobody wants to hear it. There’s no reason they should. They have their own reactions, biases, preferences.

It’s useful to remember that other people are different from you, enjoy different things, respect different things, detest different things.

The devs try to navigate between these various preferences, in various aspects of the game, and produce a mix in which they hope they have something for everyone.

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Not anymore becouse there ia just too many of them and can be easly bought for real money thanks to token.

Everybody cared becouse your gear was visual representation of your progress.

My main point is that this artificial time-gating needs to end. It’s not even about the rewards. I think Visions should have only been locked behind your ability as a player to clear them. As you got better gear, you could kill things faster, or not wipe on late bosses and clear more of the vision. Then as a new player, you could ask guildie to carry you and help you catch up quick. You can’t really carry players in horrific visions because of their sanity. They need to deal with the damned timegating. Then keep the same system for no mask visions being easy, and those who want to push themselves, give them the 5mask challenge.

I don’t think the majority of the game should be exclusive, and I don’t think the power gap between hardcore and average players should be as big as it is. But I think in general, the game should give and limit rewards based on your ability to clear content, not based on some arbitrary system limited by a weekly currency.

That’s a different issue altogether.

I said nobody cares, present.

Personally I dislike endless grinds. A big flaw since Legion has been this need to have a carrot on a stick that never ends. Endless sucks the life out of the game.

The artefact should have ended when you got all the traits and the nck should have had set caps for patches so you can be done.

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Me too. I still enjoy Diablo 2 so much because I can just hunt what I need, specific items and then I get them and I’m done. It’s okay to be done with a character. There’s so many other ones to play. Right now I really don’t want to play an alt, because I’m never done with my main, and with an alt I’ll have to manage these progressions that I dislike so much. It feels so good to be done with that.

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Comparing Legion to this… THING… we have now? BLASPHEMER! :stuck_out_tongue: Coming to think about it, Blizz managed to create a system that was worse and more RNGey than WF/TF. Should be some kinda achievement for this. Epic Screwup title maybe?

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So, the thing is, an MMO is designed throughout all aspects of it’s existence. Player versus Player, Player versus Monster, quests, storylines, and so on.

In order to attain power, it stands to both reason and logic that in an MMO it is only natural if you go against dragons, eldritch beings and things that should not be will make you stronger than those who do only PvP.

This modern MMORPG is a rather convoluted mess. WoW is more fitting of an MMOG.

and here i disagree with you .

mmorpgs are all about grinds.

they should never be made into log in - do instance - log out type of games.

And those that pvp will say that conquering individual players, honing your techniques/play against different classes will also make you stronger. It isn’t about who prefers pve or who prefers pvp or even if you just log in to pet battle and do nothing else, it’s always about individual players and how they wish to play. Making everything…

…will not satisfy all. Now I agree the current grinds are not what people want, myself included, but I don’t think tying all progression to raiding is the answer.

I think the current reward structure between dungeons and raiding is fine. There’s perfectly viable people who refuse to raid. Raid gear should be a side-grade for dungeon gear, maybe just 5%-ish more powerful. But you can clear a raid in 2,5 hours and get maybe 25 items from it. In a way raids currently are more rewarding for much less time, which is good. All activities should be rewarding in their own right, and someone who chooses to participate in all of them, and master all of them, should be just slightly more powerful. And that power doesn’t need to come from just more powerful gear, it can come from having more options to mix and match, or just having a much greater flow of gear towards you.

They should still be killable by someone who doesn’t do that. I’m absolutely not a fan of the powergap of this expansion. It’s absolutely not okay that someone who is kitted has 6 times more HP than someone just finishing the questing.

No I’m not comparing anything, I’m saying the system of endless grind was introduced with Legion. I’m not saying BfA was anything like Legion.

Literally the reason people keep asking for tabards to be added and Pathfinder removed. Because it is setting artificial limits that make no sense. Just let players do their own thing and get rewards in whatever way they like. You want your grind of choice to be done in 1 day, fine, just don’t overdose on that coffee. You want to spend 30 minutes a day for a week or two, OK, you can. Daily-restricted progress got me so ticked off in 8.2 that I literally didn’t set foot in Mechagon since I got revered, which took me 2 weeks. Could be done with it in 2-3 days - IF i had the option, which I had not, because dumb gnomes can only think of 3 quests a day. This also hurts those unable to log in every single day, not giving them any way to catch up. Contracts were heavily nerfed btw, because fun detected > fun removed - before a contract would grant a percentage splash of what you gained, after it’s fixed amount and it’s so tiny you gotta use a looking glass to register it’s existence.

The last weeks’ reputation bonus makes the game feels like it should and it’s 200% compared to normal rep gain. This alone should be a serious alarm signal that something is rotten in the state of Azeroth - additional buff is needed to make up for basic system failure. So what happens when the buff is taken away? Withdrawal berserk, that’s what. And it could be easily prevented by not making the grind required to MOVE AROUND so bloody long and measured in days logged in game.

About rewards thing… Best PVP stuff should never be hidden behing top end PVE and vice versa. Makes no sense except short-term pumping up the metrics: oh look, those guys played X arena matches and Y raids on top of it! They must like doing everything, the good little overachievers! And when they get what they wanted - essence or what it’s gonna be in Shadowlands - they stop, because this activity is not fun for them. And activity X plummets again. So why force it in the first place? Just let people get rewards for their own sort of fun. M+ might be a cancer due to RIO and general state of mechanical gameplay, but it offers another way of playing, so PvE players are not forced into raid or nothing. Should be the same way with WQs, arenas, battlegrounds, etc - you don’t want to do something, you really do not have to and you do not miss anything really powerful. And definitely no RNG allowed except “item X drops or not, and if it does not, but I really want it, I can buy it for some sort of currency I gain anyway for doing reasonable amount of my chosen activity”. Would be hell to balance but better than “keep jumping hoops or else” we have now.

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This is what I was trying to say, you explained it much better than I did, thank you :slight_smile:

Np, it’s one of 3 things I remember from Cataclysm as good - PvP/PvE currencies could be converted at something like 3 you have = 2 you want ratio, so if you really wanted to get PvP starting gear, you could get it by farming dungeons. You know something is broken when it makes Cata look good :smiley: Granting tabards ability to get reputation from HKs, arena matches, WQs done etc. isn’t a big logic leap. And non-raid reputations used to work this way before the dark days of Mythic and Golden Lotus daily BS - normal quests & dailies were there, but tabards & tokens for PvE currency were generally more efficient.

I didn’t play Cata, but this sounds really, really good and I think it should come back.

I was thinking and it occurred to me that the reward structure, exclusive rewards isn’t the problem. The problem is that these rewards bind on pickup. Imo, all rewards should be tradeable between players. If you don’t want to do raids - just go farm the gold and buy your raid item from the AH. You can have raiding communities who make gold from raiding and selling the gear, the same would be viable for pvp, too. I know in the current wow climate, with boosts and the token this is idealistic, but let’s be idealistic for a while.

Even better, all top tier reward should come from professions. Shadowlands is kinda doing that and I am so hyped for it. I remember in Lineage 2 gear didn’t bind at all. It was pretty expensive, but once you got a plate set, you had a plate set for all of your characters. You just had to transfer it, which you could do by throwing it on the floor and logging onto a different character, hoping nobody picks it up, or you could mail it, which cost a small, but considerable amount of gold. It was so nice to have the game designed around gear that doesn’t bind at all.

375 Justice Points for 250 Honor Points.

There was no reverse however, so you couldn’t buy Justice for Honor.

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This ability to buy pvp rewards with pve currency, but a higher cost should come back, and also the reverse should be possible as well. Overall, I think it’ll be good to have vendors selling everything - raid gear, all dungeon gear, pvp gear, trinkets, etc. and allow players to slowly work towards what they want. But if you get the item from a raid boss instead, that just saved you 3-4 weeks of farming. Then also make it so we can trade gear for currency and the system would be pretty solid.

You could buy Conquest with Valor as well, but then it was 250 - 250.

But once again, you couldn’t do reverse.