Breath of Sindragosa


Here’s some notes from Sigma, one of the developers, on the changes to Breath of Sindragosa so far on the PTR:

We agreed with common feedback that Frost DK, overall, had too high a portion of open GCDs in a steady-state rotation. When this happens, it’s generally a problem with a spec’s resource economy, and the baseline buffs to Runic Empowerment and Frost Fever resource generation were meant to address it.

But Breath of Sindragosa poses a further problem. A Breath that spends (for example) 300 Runic Power is, in a single button press, removing 12 Frost Strikes from the future. In other words, every 2 minutes, it creates 11 open GCDs that otherwise wouldn’t have been there, which is a huge amount. Across all classes, we try to keep an eye on variations in rotation pacing caused by talents—including cases where a talent causes a large deviation in resource economy or GCD utilization—and Breath is a big outlier. And, in all this, we’d prefer to preserve Breath’s signature resource-drain mechanic.

The first solution, giving increased Runic Empowerment proc chance during Breath, did return resources to the rotation, and did so during Breath. While this correctly targeted the talent (Breath was draining resources, so Breath should put some back in order to mitigate the pacing problems), it was the wrong time to give back resources. Even though Breath itself sucks resources away, players shift all possible resources into Breath, because this is the clear way to optimize the use of the talent. Resources can be shifted into the Breath window using ERW, Horn, and simple pooling, with the result that adding more during Breath itself actually overfills it.

So the goal of the current change—Breath returns Runes at the start and end—is to make the Breath talent add resources, but to do so outside the Breath window. Even the Runes at the start are effectively “outside” the Breath window, because they counteract 2 Runes’ worth of pooling that otherwise had to be done to play Breath optimally.

As always, changes are subject to further revision, but this might give some insight into the process for making surgical changes to address specific problems.

(Pólaris) #2

Great! Now what about people who hate using breath and would very much like to see something happen with obliterate and icecap? This focus on that one ability is damn unhealthy.


Hellothere beautiful ppl :slight_smile:


You guys are about to get some hate so be manly about it

I’m rly sorry to say that but you seem to be in a rapid need of some medical substunces, which make a person feel good :slight_smile:

Or may be sadly there’s a need for competition, cuz activision is ~ a monopoly

Btw I like breath playstyle

What I don’t like is that being a mythic raider I’m so useless they can’t really have me with them

Dk’s can offer nothing useful except Grip. Being a melee dps with 7-10th place on a dmg meter with orange log… And that’s it?

I mean i watch in awe at all the stupid stuff you guys do (sorry i just love warcraft too much u know :slight_smile: ) such as bad balance, legendaries being rng, master loot removed, LFR etc you guys are legendary activisioned there it’s just magnificent

Sorry to sound like a d*ck there I just genually don’t get it. And I live in russia so I shouldn’t be surprized lol

Anyway make a class playable or stop paying those who “try”

If possible bring back Festerblight / necroblight playstyle for unholy. If u don’t know what that was google it

Fun detected

Better just rework frost and unholy they’re just stupid


I’d just like to say that I think it’s unfair that Blizzard is getting hate for these changes. People seem to be oblivious to the fact the Breath of Sindragosa playstyle has been plagued with a ridiculous amount of downtime. These changes are made to fix how the spec plays, not to buff the damage of the spec of increase the utility.

It’s important to realise this, instead of going on brigades about our damage (simply an issue of tuning), or about the power of different talents (again, a matter of tuning). These changes make the spec play so much better and I’m very thankful that they’ve been made. I’m looking forward to playing Frost in 8.2 and enjoying the playstyle that it’ll bring!

(Henoriel) #5

I don’t think you get the whole matter of it…


I tested these changes just a brief time, but I think they feel great. I really like BoS, it’s something unique, that is really compareable to any other spec. It’s fun and super rewarding if you do it well.

The Issue with Breath is that most people don’t seem to get how it works, from what I saw. And this is fine. Not every spec has to be easy to play. I really hope BoS becomes baseline next expansion, and we therefor can get lvl 100 talents that can compete with each other :slight_smile:


First sorry for my bad English,

It’s a good start with breath! It feels much better on the PTR now. But please try to do something with the other talents in this row. The other talents aren’t good (many talents are just boring passives). Oblit need something like uhhh obliterate deals frost dmg while its active. And I don’t know how to fix ice cap. Maybe pillar gives you double strength or just delet it. And please look at frost fever. It should’t do so much dmg when frost strike and obliterate hits like nothing.

Short: -Buff Frost strike and Oblitarate
-nerf Frost Fever
-make the other two talents viable

I think thats not to much for a 8.2 patch. You have done much more in 7.2 and 7.1.5 and 7.3. Frost DK needs a complete new Design but for now I would be happy If you would change the three things I wrote. Try to do it better in 9.0.

And again sorry for my bad english :confused:


Silly me, I thought there were other talents on that final row for Frost DKs as well.

(Necrassa) #9

Just remove it. I don’t understand why this talent has to even stay. I hardly know anyone who plays frost dk because of BoS.


Some further insight from Sigma:


Loool, in current patchnote icacap 2sec, not 3. Breath still best. Disagreement, all who are without breath will always be worse.