Obliterate is just garbage outside the burst window (Obliterate talent build).
Look at enhancement shaman spamming stormstrike (got the lego for) and that one hits much much harder.
Look at Palladins and be sad… Crusader strike (a filler) hits for like 50%+ of our main abilities. Dont even compare Templar’s Verdict…
For the People who mained their Frost DK back in WotLK or MoP and were SSSSSOOOOOO happy to see the 2 handers back, they are quite disapointed, REALLY.
Give back the 50% slow for 6 sec from Frost Fewer… I don’t understand how frost damage cannot slow enemy (or remove the slow from frost dmg from mages, shamans…)
What Pushed me to level and Main the Frost dk were: Dathgrip (just awesome), the ability to slow a whole group in one ability (just GRRREAT), Blood/Frost presence switching (being much more tanky when needed to the cost of great loss of dps) to troll rogues/feral again, a proper AMS (one that can actually last its whole duration for once).
Finally get rid of Chill Streak: your main damage in PVP shall come from abilities that are in the regular talent tree/rotation… keep pvp talent to enhance some of them, no new abilities…
So true. I agree. Im hardstuck 1.5k CR because my skill wont reward me to climb. I have to rely on WW or Arms to do all the singletarget. Its just not fun without Glad exped mates. Its not fun being a grip&stunn bot for the actual Dps. Yikes
as much as your entire post speaks truth to power, the only way we will get the good Dk back, the one that actually had it’s abilities and entire framework and engine designed with love is to go to a private server or wait for wrath classic in 2+ years, the devs that made the class back then actually played it and enjoyed what they worked with, nowadays we have one (1) singular guy doing ALL classes if i am not mistaken… and one (1) one singular entity doing ALL pvp tuning and abilities for the game, and these people dont either play or like DK, they got some favorites,which is apparent, but in the end they dont care, they are angry spiteful interns (atleast their work makes it deserved to call them that) that are stuck in a corporate soulgrinding machine.
The old passionate devs are long gone, sure a starstruck miracle might happen again like in BFA when they knee jerked in all those new pvp abilites and traits because DK’s where TRASH but i doubt it. reroll, wait for a better game to come out, either by the many former blizz devs now on their own terms making new stuff in 5+ years. This is their framework for DK’s now and they are happy with it, a BoS using watercooler spitball idea that is neglected and hated alongside our neutered PvP presence thanks to the existance of Chill streak. i want anyone that is reading this to dare to find any other class in the same situation or pigenhole of talents in PvE and PvP, when our entire performance is designed around TWO OPTIONAL ABILITIES THAT ARE NTO EVEN BASELINE.
dude trust me we are doing 8 to 11k oblirate in pvp in our goes its not chilstreak only our dmg is fine i think the only problem is our surviveability that need some helps if DS was healing for real we where S tier for sure but yea in terms of comps we are kinda lacking tho
Nah, the main issue isn’t that DK is bad, but other melees are plain better.
In your pillar window you can get off around 3 oblits, with average 8k damage and 3 frost strikes = 30k damage with what? 6 globals? + chill streak that usually sits for 3-4 bounces with 3.5k/each = 40.5k Damage in 10 seconds.
Now take ret for example: 1 TV 25k crit on average = 1 GCD, Divine toll = 7/8k per judgement with wings off noncrit and hits 5 of them + conduit = 40k damage + 25k if conduit procs = 65k damage in ONE Global.
Is not our class, is just that others are better. DK feels good, set-up based with nice aoe burst and super disruptive with his toolkit (aoe grip, heartstop etc.)
well for example we can destroy almost every melee class like rets are strugeling realy hard playing into us cuz we have 80% dmg reduction for their almost every wings heartstop is insane we destroy almost every cleave teams the only problem we have is into wizzard cleaves atm
the only thing that make us a little behind ret enha or warriors in 3s is just our sustain and DS nerf if we had good healing like befor we where for sure S tier
but outside of 3s we are not so insane kinda boring to play with frost unlike unholy and the problem that peaple hate frost is that its not realy ez to make its setups the higher rating you go its geting harder and you need good cordination with your team also making mistakes are not forgiving cuz we have almost no healing like befor
frost dk has become just a cleave, an awesome one like dh… you can see that in instances like torghast (you go through like butter) and easy top dps inn m+…
I have 5 classes at ilvl 200: frost dk, ret, enh, havoc, shadow priest…
if I wan to solo a “special npc” in the maw, now you see the absolute difference: if it takes 10s for the dk, 7s fo the dh, 5s for ret and enh…
we are absolutely behind in single target burst…
when I watch a youtube channel on dk pvp, the guy was like 3k in 3s and 1.2k in 2s…
beside that everytime I press obliterate outside the burst window and it hits for 1951 or so IT MAKES ME SAD…
And while we finally catched up to RELEASE burst numbers everyone else is doing double or triple that now in the same Ilvl, in less GCD’s
exactly like this, it’s awful design that might have worked if not for the october nerfs, but the singular dev dont play DK so its fine and any more effort will not be done
it’s clear there needs to be a shift in the damage the frost death knight is doing i think the right thing is to nerf chill streak in a way it becomes a 90% bounce slow and are designed to be just that and for our core kit some of our aoe ability’s like frost fever and remorseless winter should be tuned down and have that power be put in to our direct damaging spells howling/frost/oblit the nerf to remorseless can easly be balanced out whit gathering storm,
as for glacial advance i like this spell it’s cost is more balanced for the chanse per use to generate runes and i like that i can rotate between it and frost strike but number wise it needs to deal way higher damage on single target use and the ramp up whit razorice needs to ramp up faster than what we can do now,
next is our talent tree passives and lots of it boring and shows blizzard are eating way a lot of junk food needs work there,
and then our cd it’s so weird that our empowered rune weapon is not a 1min cd like piller,
as for obliterate maybe it should just bypass armor at all times and just have KM enable the frost damage mechanic as it does now,
just like to put this in what do you guys think if icecap were to also effect empowered rune weapon and not just piller when this talent is picked it almost had made more sense heck i think it wont have been op if it effected our dragon to all that is needed to it are just balancing the cd per crit that it does.
Something that would be interesting is to actually make chillstreak a baseline Frost DK ability, and the PvP talent buffs it to it’s current state?
Though it does need a range buff, it’s sort of fun and rewarding to pull it off. The only problem it was is that it’s easy to get out of by simply moving, and it should be rewarding if you manage to keep the bounce going for the entire duration.
Edit: One example could be making the slow only 30%, but stacks up to 3 times (up to 90% slow), and the damage is reduced, but each bounce increases its damage, making the total damage more if all the bounces hit.
your speaking from pvp side. i do agree that oblit is weak outside pillar and crit procs but winter is one of our best aoe cleave in pve . frost strike on other hand is just a rune power spender wich also could be a bit stronger. but nerfing frost strike and winter? hell no
I mean, nerfing aoe and buffing ST is what defines frost. Frost were since the very beginning wotlk massive ST pressure genetators, while unholy was the rot-aoe spec. Right now tides have turned (unholy being better at ST than frost), but with the current stat of unh, is just a pile of trash.
Just imagine if they would just keep the flavor of the specs, with unholy being aoe pressure generator with decent ST due to necrotics (thus having super good synergy with casters) and frost being stronger on ST, being better with melees and higher burst comps.
And also, this applies to PvE too, since Frost used to shine in ST boss fights, while unh being better in terms of aoe. Translated to nowadays, unholy would stay as good as it is in M+, but frost would shine in raids.
The persons (one person in reality) that are currently designing this game has no cluse about anything regarding DK, they inherited the class from passionate people, and they hate it when they have to even look at the time they need to take out of their busy schedule revamping shadowpriest immideatly in their beta thread, our thread was the longest, nothing was done expect some small changes with frost, as they spent 80% of their dev time treading water with Unholy, and it’s numbers might be OK now in PvE, it’s a GCD fest of slow tedium, im amazed they even had time to look at Blood’s talents… because imagine going into SL with BfA’s old blood talents?
Bottom Line, we are an afterthought discussed at the watercooler break.
I am obviously exagerrating a little but anyone that has played DK, or/and or frost for long can see whats up, i’m just very vocal and give little damns about decorum at this point, it is true, most of the old guard and passion has left blizzard, if you search your heart WoW has in essence been carried by the stellar art and music team ever since legion, while the other departments work with understaffed overworked skeleton crews that quite frankly dont have the desire to care, or can care about every class since they have to work so much, last time i heard it was just one guy doing PvP and Class design, might be 2 or so now, but i both hate them and understand them, they work for a soulless corporate machine now, their dreams of becoming a part of the magic of blizzard is gone, and they hate themselves, their work, and the arrogant head of marketing and finance that plop their head in every saturday " yeah uuuuuh we need to cut more funding from this department soo uuuu… we can…uuh… get more profits, record breaking last year, dont you have a phone worker dro-i mean valued employee?"
Nah Obliterate used to be an ability that hit hard… My biggest crit with my 210+ Frost DK is far less than a crit on Templat Verdict I had when leveling my Alt Pally (lol was not even 60 and should have like 120-130 ilvl)… that is just pathetic and sad…
