What do you think is the reason BFA is the worst pvp expansion? alternative write if you don’t think it is and which expansion was.
11 Likes
it is not 1 thing that makes it the worst. All seasons probably had 2-5 things that were just terrible but bfa there is pretty much 2-5 good things and the rest is terrible, so kind off the opposite
I felt it went down the drain since legion. Legion would have been similar terrible if the templates wouldn’t have correct some of the scaling effects.
-bad gear
-bad class design
-balance is horrible
-games are boring
-heavy burst / 0 sustain dmg
just some examples i guess
even bgs feel just terrible to play
7 Likes
It is the worst pvp expansion.
Reason ? Because ION sucks on pvp or he gets rekt on world pvp that’s why he made war mode and he went all in for pve
9 Likes
Not even the worst, but the worst by a LARGE margin.
12 Likes
- heavy pruning, most specs lost lot of things, 2-3 specs dominate everything with their utility (specs with tons of mobility and lot of CC and lot of damage and burst and lot of defenses and everything)
- no customization, no reforging, no sense of building your characters the way you want
- no pvp and/or pve vendors, everything is RNG, pvp gear is difficult to obtain
- some specs have it all, others have almost nothing
- melee healers dominate over non melee healers
- melee dps dominate and some non melee dps turned to abomination to compensate with
- professions became irrelevant at most cases to character building
- rated bgs are almost dead
- you need to do lot of pve things to play pvp
- alt unfriendly, too much grinding, too much pve to play pvp even in low casual battlegrounds
32 Likes
remove destro lock, resto druid and mage from the game and arenas are somewhat enjoyable and yea this classes are tilting me even more than dh
2 Likes
I want to actually play arenas but i can’t thanks to blizzard gutting my fav specs and mongo dhs ruining the fun
7 Likes
I see posts like this every xpac. Someone is always unhappy about the pvp, blizzard cannot please everyone.
I feel sorry for them really as there is always someone moaning lol
1 Like
Its couple of things imo. First of all, you have to spend most of the time doing pve and then ocasionaly do some pvp if you were lucky in pve. Then there are mandatory grinds for ap for reps for essences etc. Pvp gear is a joke rng fest bs.
Then theres their “class balance” where they made things like destro from unplayable to broken af and propably one of most hated specs by anybody to play against with eyception of maybe DH. Same with resto druids. They just letting those obnoxious abominations of a specs way too long in the game with a “we have to adress it in the future” bs excuse. Like s1 boomkin oneshots, unkillable sps, afliction oneshots etc, s2 destro, resto dr, dk, s3 destro dh firemage guardian resto shaman pack spirit and stuff like mana break or greater pyro…and thats only couple of things thats making arenas obnoxious.
Then there are pve items that basicaly running rampart in arena, defensive shields, healing trinkets, dmg trinkets and items like legs from crucible while they said themselves that they dont like it when pve tank items slowing the games, yet they only nerf damaging ones and the tank items are still retarded in arena. Passives over passives over passives procs everywhere, be it healing or damaging- i mean its pretty damn wierd when you press sw:pain on a target and suddenly in your details it shows like fiftheen rows of proccing pasive minor damage traits, trinkets, essences etc… Basicaly everything taking tooooooooooooooooooooo long to adress, fix, nerf if it even get some atention.
Release of classic didnt help it either.
12 Likes
Rated Arena seems to be the same as every expansion. Same content, gameplay, and unhappy players.
Skirmishes seems to be the same as every expansion. It’s just there.
Rated Battlegrounds seems to be the same as every expansion. Existing, but unpopular and mostly ignored.
Random Battlegrounds seem slightly improved. Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch make-overs. Ashran and Wintergrasp. New Brawls. Korrak’s Revenge. Etc… Lots of new content and gameplay additions.
World PvP seems changed. Warmode has had a huge impact, sometimes resulting in epic clashes, but the faction imbalance seems to be highly problematic in general.
Content-wise there’s nothing new, but gameplay-wise there’s chests, bounties, talents and perks, and so on, which is inevitably more than prior to Warmode.
Island Expedition PvP is new, but it seems unpopular and mostly ignored.
Overall I’d say it’s a fairly decent PvP expansion, but the quality of the experience depends on what type of PvP you’re doing.
But since this is the Arena forum, I guess you can scratch the expansion up as the worst one ever, like all the ones before, just to go with tradition. 
2 Likes
its not the same as any other expansion though. Legion and BFA has caused serious damage to gearing / Class design. the game has never been this dead and it’s because of those two major points.
1 Like
You are right, blizzard tried to please their PVE beloved kids making pvp activities a secondary fun part of the game for them, destroying at the same time a well structured and efficient pvp system of the past (vendors, special gear etc). So, yes, some people moan but happens to be the last remaining pvp ers … And guess what … numbers of subs diminish every year
3 Likes
wrong… there are more pve “happy” players dominating 1500-1800 with their gear …
wrong… i remember in draenor i was playing in steady basis rbgs and we had really fun …
wrong… they are improved iconicaly, as u mentioned and it s obviously irrelevant, but the game play is abyssmaly worse since too many pve ers participate with their big fat gear, not even knowing the basics, … making the battle a real mess . i dont even dare to talk about class imbalance here …
Totally wrong, this is the expansion blizzard destroyed a well structured pvp system (of the past) with no vendors, no special pvp gear, pruned classes to the ground so most lost their depth and utilities, etc…
Overall your answer focuses on the iconic part of pvp game ignoring the main structural problems…
13 Likes
Okay. Then Rated Arena is a slightly improved experience, since seemingly many players are having an enjoyable time, as you say.
Sure. But it was still unpopular. Players have never flocked to Rated Battlegrounds en mass, except when they’ve been forced (extra Conquest points, Artifact Weapon skins, etc.).
It’s always been a niche activity, and it is still a niche activity today.
Players are players.
A self-proclaimed PvPer’s enjoyment of Random Battlegrounds doesn’t count for more than the enjoyment of anyone else.
And lots of players seem to enjoy Random Battlegrounds, going by the decent activity across all formats, and the high levels of Honor some players sport in those Random Battlegrounds.
The issues you point out don’t seem to get in the way of people continuing to queue for Random Battlegrounds, so alas, it’s a solid gameplay activity. And the additions Blizzard have made to it have only made it better for those who enjoy it.
I have read similar doom & gloom preaching on this forum for every single expansion. So that just appears as a constant. It doesn’t make BfA worse than the other expansions when people say that classes have lost their depth, because that’s been said on this forum for every single expansion ever.
There’s a default level of PvP negativity and displeasure that generally applies to WoW. It doesn’t matter what expansion or season it is, that negativity and displeasure is always to be found. You may as well dismiss it, because it is unaffected by anything Blizzard have ever done. It doesn’t really increase or decrease, it’s just a steady and constant level of QQ. It goes with the territory, seemingly.
And if you dismiss that and look at what’s left, then again, I think it’s an overall solid PvP expansion, depending a bit on what PvP activities you indulge in.
RBGs has gone from enjoyed by hundreds of people in WoD, to basically ignored by everyone in BFA. Most of the people who were forming or encouraging RBGs over the last few expansions have quit the bracket, retail, or the game entirely.
As far as visuals and content overall goes, definitely. But the one big sticking point is the gearing system, or lack thereof, making progressing your character by doing the content near enough impossible in a reasonable timeframe. If you want to enjoy battlegrounds, you have to do a great deal of content that is not battlegrounds. That’s a huge lose for many people, including myself, even though I do do all content on one character, I have 3-4 alts I haven’t even touched this expansion that I’d like to BGs on but haven’t even considered it because of the inordinate amount of other content I’d have to do on top.
Random BGs used to be one of the most alt friendly forms of content in the entire game. Now they’re dependant on systems you cannot progress through by doing random BGs at all, and reward so little that progressing your character through them (Even if random BGs are all you ever intend to do) is near enough impossible.
14 Likes
Exactly, Jito, major blizzard defender. But these players are pve pugs while our issue here is pvp aspect of the game… and the fact that millions or trillions of pve players enjoy killing other players in random bgs with their big raid gear doesnt delete the issues pvp has, which is exactly the content of this post.
This post is about structural problems in pvp, it s not about iconic changes of warsong bg…
So yes this game transformed pvp aspect to a secondary fun activity for “trillions” of pve players… This doesnt mean pvp is good…
As Ellipsis correctly stated above:
5 Likes
Guys please stop complaining, according to Jito we’re all arseholes so should be quiet that most pvpers are playing classic over bfa.
How dare you post about things that annoy you in the arena forum about arena
6 Likes
only in wod and bfa players cried about game being boring. it is not like every exp we call that exp is worst. i was having blast in mop and cata. and i was playing enh shaman in cata lol
1 Like
Short answer: Yes!
To be fair, every expansion had seasons (mostly at the beginning of the xpac) that were really bad. But since legion we have to deal with DH, pruning is now at the top, no solid gearing system for PvP, unfun classdesign, balance not existant, forced content AND time sink on its maximum (farm, farm, farm) - it’s imo the worst PvP expansion.
Or lets say: It’s the last mess I will spend money on. If 9.0 isn’t at least realizable better than BfA, I won’t buy it!
2 Likes
Sure. The various aspects of PvP definitely have issues and room for improvement – Random Battlegrounds are no different. That in itself doesn’t make them demonstratively the worst they’ve ever been. And I don’t think that’s the case with Random Battlegrounds either.
So far as I’ve understood the topic, then it’s merely an assessment of how PvP in BfA is compared to other expansions. And as far as Random Battlegrounds are concerned, then I think they’re pretty good, and slightly improved over the previous iteration in Legion.
Sure, there are some worthy points of criticism in regards to gearing and rewards, but I think the addition of new brawls, re-made Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch, and more Epic Battlegrounds, makes for a net-positive game experience. The Random Battlegrounds format seems decently popular despite the aforementioned points of criticism, so the good seemingly outweighs the bad.
Players are players. If a “PvE player” spends 10 hours doing PvP and has an enjoyable time, then that enjoyment counts as much as if a “PvP player” had spent 10 hours doing PvP and had an enjoyable time.
The notion that PvP can only be fun and enjoyable if the self-proclaimed PvPers enjoy it, is a bit silly.
If there are “millions or trillions” of “PvE players” who enjoy PvP for whatever reason, then the PvP design is a huge success.
I don’t know. The OP’s initial post seems fairly open-minded in its writing. I’ve written my post from a broad PvP perspective, because that’s what the OP alluded to. If you want to talk about structural problems, then go ahead, but I don’t see why I have to talk about the things you want to talk about. Bring them up yourself. 
For those “trillions of PvE players”, it seemingly is.
I’m just saying that the PvP community has always had a lengthy list of complaints about any and every expansion. And most of those complaints are recurring. Class design. Arena balance. Itemization. Etc…
It’s not really a surprise to anyone that these complaints have been brought forth in regards to BfA, because they’ve been brought forth for every single expansion!
So an expansion that has these points of complaints isn’t necessarily any worse than the other expansions, because they had those points of complaints too.
I mean, if you look at Arena in each expansion – in a very broad manner – then it’s a couple of new maps, some semi-irregular balance tweaks, and some new rewards each season.
That’s it. That formula doesn’t really change very much from expansion to expansion. It’s mostly the same.