And why is this an issue exactly?
Would have been nice to not have the key get downgraded on failure .
And if you remove key depletion, you can spend 20 hours to push a key up.
Because the only reason a key depletes is because you didnt finish the key in time, and you can’t push that key.
The run itself, is logged for your weekly rewards and all quests that work in M+. (4x weekly mythic dungeon for HC ilvl stuff)
So if you would remove key depletion, you are essentially removing the timer and just making M+ normal mythics.
Because a key only downranks if you dont time the run, so saying: you dont have to deplete the key after you fail the timer just doesnt make it work.
You failed, and have to try again, and because you failed the game developers think you need to get better and you have to do a lower key.
Timing a run: you upgrade a key, and get items. (atleast 1 item and more for +2 / +3 runs)
Nontimed run: sad, you have to try again with a lower key. (and i believe atleast 1 item atm)
If you would be able to retry the same key over and over because it doesnt ‘‘deplete’’ you can basically spend 20 hours to push a key up, by doing it over and over again.
As mentioned by Ancelyn, due to the weekly lockout.
Yeah that sucks, but thats life, and removing key depletion wont solve that.
Because at that time and moment you wont be able to continue playing because 1 player left for said emergency.
And then you’ll get people who will stay AFK to not be the first ones to leave. Great suggestion.
M+ keys will be removed. And M+ will be like torghast.
Group chooses the difficulty (M+ level) it wants to do. It succeeds if it finishes in time. It fails if not. No key needed.
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Leaving feedback? What.
Do you honestly think it will be constructive feedback? It won’t be.
There’s already stakes involved in a key: succeeding it, pushing it.
Rest of your comment is a good example of what makes the game generate so much toxicity.
Players want immediate success. They don’t want to be with others who still need to learn. They want to be with others who already have learnt. It’s very obvious to me why this is a very bad thing. But just in case some people reading this don’t understand why: players in general have a hard time finding groups exactly because of this.
Players have a hard time progressing in the game exactly because of this.
Instead of creating an environment where new players are welcome and learning is welcomed, it creates an environment where you must be an expert at everything right at the very beginning (or at least as soon as possible). This is the definition of a toxic environment. If you’re not convinced about this, think about these job offers asking for juniors with 5 years of experience and enough skills to fullfill a whole IT department. This is exactly that.
I think some people may be interested in the name of that addon. You should put a link.
No you can’t.
If you push your key, you still have to beat the timer
Read what i posted.
Because the key wont deplete and stays the same you can literally spam it all day and night till you time it. (And spend 20 hours on the key if you want to. In 10 runs, or 12 runs or whatever.)
Completely removing the urge and need to do it “right” the first time.
Please stop using the weekly lockout as an argument because it’s an invalid one. Why didn’t it rain today? because i had a cheeseburger this morning…what!?
Please by all means, explain to me exactly how a key depletion, and not going back a boss in raids, is justified by “raid lockout”.
Removing a key depletion of course will solve the problem, because you won’t have to waste double the time leveling your key again. Do 15 again or do 14 and 15 again?..
If you claim this, how would you feel to run your key that doesnt deplete and every dps or healer or tank leaving instantly when they “think” they might not time it?
It happens already, and surely wont change if you just remove key depletion.
So what ? What’s the problem with this seriously ? If you beat the timer, that means you’ve learnt how to do it. So you deserve it.
Why would you deserve it more if you had to complete a ton of lower keys in addition ? That doesn’t add anything.
You do realize that you can still do that right?
LFG, you’ll find someone with the same key in 2 seconds.
As you say, it already happens. But when it happens, right now, it also decrease the rank of the key. So if the key did not deplete, I’d certainly feel better about it.
Also… Thanks for illustrating what I said regarding immediate success:
M+ runs: you can literally try and time 700 keys at lvl 15 in 7 days if you want to.
With rewards coming in, and weekly vault options popping up.
There is no cap on keys, so if you deplete your key, and you really need that particular key timed, you can just hop into another group with the same key.
Nobody made up rules about key pushing: ow if you push a key; it has to be your own key. So you better not deplete it.
Instead, keys are a “community thing” and you can do any key on any lvl timed or untimed regardless what your own key is.
There simply is no need to remove key depletion aslong as keys are “shared” as they are now.
Thats the design of M+ and pushing keys.
Its not a community issue.
Its simply part of the content.
Just as much as pvp is based upon fighting against other real humans.
I’ve done a total of… 47 timed runs and a few untimed runs on this char, more overall on all my chars.
The amount of leavers I’ve seen is: 1 tank who left his own key after DPS screwed the % up right at the start. 1 dps who left after 5 wipes to last boss in ToP. 1 healer who left after the tank pulled the whole area before 3rd boss in necrotic wake.
I’ve also left keys because people just aren’t playing around the affixes. Tanks becoming immune to healing from necrotic and crying that they die. DPS who thinks bursting means there should be some competition on how to stay the farthest away from others so I can’t mass dispel more than one or two people at the same time and then cries when they die because they’re so spread out, while at the same time renewing bursting stacks just as it’s about to fall off. I’m not staying with such groups, nope.
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Yeah, and you do that ever since keys got introduced.
Yet i am not suggesting to remove key depletion.
It literally wont solve anything.
But good you finally understood.
/thread
Party leader is responsible for who they’re inviting. People who use RIO don’t even know how to use it properly. They see awful rio history, like the person stayed in a 50 minute SD+10 run and are like “bleh, I’m not inviting that idiot”
The thing is, this is the idiot you should invite, BECAUSE they stayed in a 50 minute SD run. Because they are the type of person who wouldn’t drop your key.
It’s all on you, mate. Pugging comes with the territory. If you failed to finish the key, for whatever reason, it gets depleted. You’re supposed to learn from your mistakes and not repeat them. This is why the key depletes.
Some players would stay in a cursed run because they don’t want to deplete your key. It’s called being a decent human being. Removing the penalty for being a bad party leader would also remove their encouragement to stay, so leaving would become even more prevalent.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with all of this. But this sounds like a very bad design to me, because basically:
It sounds like that all of what you just described seem to be very selfish behavior.
Something like: “it doesn’t matter if your key deplete anyway, because we’re going to find another one in the group finder anyway”.
Ok, and let’s push that line of thought a bit further now: “it doesn’t matter if your key deplete anyway, because we’re going to find another key to run and ruin in the group finder. And after that second ruined key, we’ll find a third and a fourth and a fifth…”
And let’s add some more just for fun, because the kind of dude who would behave like that would definitively be seen as a moron here. So he would also probably add: “Until I, personally, manage to get in a group who can carry me while I stand, dead, in void zones, shouting at the healer waiting to be resurrected”.
Sounds fun.
No depletion would avoid that I bet.