I agree that puggin M+ is way worse than in Legion. This comes to 3 things:
Harder dungeons: more trash, more mechanics, more affixes.
Bad rewards: Not enough ap, no Azerite armor, very few specific items.
The meta and class balance: some specs like enh shaman, ferral and guardian druid, all 3 lock specs, veng DHs, are unplayable in M+.
None of that has anything to do with player interactions. Thus you can not punish people for the faults of the game!
Thatâs why my solution wasnât to punish anyoneâŠjust reset the key
Mythic + bosses are too easy while there is frankly absurd volumes of trash mobs, on teeming weeks you have to wonder if using timewarp/hero is better served on trash packs than the afk boss fights.
Which is open to abuse. Frankly every single dungeon has to be remade - the amount of trash, abilities, damage. As well as every single affix, except vulcanic. Iâm telling you, as a person who used to push 3.5k-3.7k raiderio during Legion, I canât find a single week where I enjoy M+.
If someone leaves because you pulled additional pack after youâve completed the necessary % saying âf*ck you wasting my timeâ, how is that the games fault?
In my eyes that person is just a prick.
Letâs also add that group was advertised as chill, we are not pushing score, ect.
I agree the affixes need some attention, because while they may have been fine in legion they have been brought over and in some cases left alone or buffed to the point of stupidity like bursting is just bad at this point.
I canât even⊠So, you want to punish every single prick in the game? Then you need to punish half of the playerbase . Iâm telling you why M+ puggin is more toxic than Legionâs.
Bursting, Sanguine, Teaming + Fortified (that combo SHOULD NOT EXIST), Explosive, Bolstering (in many dungeons with mixed mob pack, it is retarded), Iâm not even gonna start on how stupid Reaping is, with casters shooting people through walls.
If the attitude of i pay for the game, I want to do what I want and play how I want was gutted and left on the side-walk. It wouldnât be a issue but as of current game people just dont care for other players in progressive PVE.
If your a âelitistâ you dont stretch out past your community/guild cause you cant risk the random just being beyond dead weight, like 8k dps on fortified week dead weight on a +10.
On the otherside of the coin your a âcasualâ you just play how you want, go at your own pace. Clear LFR with your talent/spec of choice without really much dwelling on it and probably little to no class knowledge? (this doesnât apply to all, but this is the generic stereotype Iâve come across more often than not.) And thats why pugging is a absolute nightmare for both sides of the coin cause one side of people donât even care for the idea of progression and the others have their own pre-made groups already
Well would be better if someone else could take the place from this guy wich left the dungeon. The myth + definitely wouldnât be at time but atleast finishedâŠ
With the current loot system, if the guy left and the Dungeon completes, he still gets gear. This was done to prevent trolling and abusing the kick function at the last boss. 3 friends do a key, they kick the 2 players right when the boss dies so they can loot everything themselves. Ironicaly this system also prevents replacing people once a M+ starts.
And you can punish frequent leavers really easily with a system that punishes repeated offense (i.e. stacking debuffs). It wonât stop people from leaving but it can definitely reduce significantly the abuse of leaving dungeons scot-free and no one who leaves the dungeon every once and then will suffer heavy repercussion. Or even lowering the leaverâs keystone.
The only ones who should be finding a problem with a system that punishes repeated leaving and ruining other peopleâs keystones are the ones who play a part in the problems.
No you canât. You can not determine with a 100% certainty what the reason for leaving is.
Again, this is ridiculous.
No, such system will effect everyone. Suddenly trolling by kicking people and abusing such system will be a hot topic. Sto trying to regulate peopleâs interactions between each other!
Read my entire comment, then put a bit of stretch on the word ârepeatedâ. Leaving is NOT a problem. ABUSING the lack of punishment IS. And that can be spotted even by a 5yo toddler with the right tools because nobody who leaves due to occasional issues is going to leave on a frequent basis. And forget about the disconnection part, if you get kicked repeatedly because you get disconnected often, youâre the problem there for knowingly playing a mode that runs on the clock with awful connection. Once is okay, twice too and further is already pushing it too far.
So tell me. Do you really believe there are going to be that many who get the short stick of a system that punishes repetition rather than ocassional offenses? Do you really want me to believe people get kicked or leave that frequently theyâre going to be punished along with the intentional leavers?
Ridiculous is pretending to discard any solution to a problem because of an hipotetical (and i really need to stretch that word, because literally what describe all of your counterargments) disadvantage for which there is no basis to believe itâs going to outweight the advantages the solution brings. Ridiculous is pretending problems are solved just by leaving them be. That kind of attitude just contributes to let problems pile up to a point of no return rather than solve one problem at a time.
Half of my pugs, they canât pass the first hard Trashpack in Fortified, or boss in Tyrancial. What should I do, stay and waste potentionally 3 hours of my already short free time to game? No thanks. I told you the issues are with the game! The BFA dungeons are not made for pugs, they are made for MDI.
Yes! And definitely Yes!
I gave you the BEST solution, in my opinio. Remake the dungeons and affixes! Do not meddle with player interactions for the faults of the game!
Key resetting would lead to abuse. If the key was starting to go south and they werenât going to make the timer theyâd just abandon it to start over. Thatâs not the idea of M+.
What faults of the game? That some affixes are difficult?
Game is what the game is, even though not perfect.
However if people leave the group because you are slow or do mistakes, that isnât the games fault.
If that were true you would be rank one mage which, after checking your Rio, you arenât.
Just in case you take this as an attack against you what I mean is: how come other people are able to compete higher keys when you say some affixes are unplayable?
When I say âunplayableâ I do not mean - unplayable for 100% of the M+ players. I tought you were smart enough to get that. I ment Unplayable for the large amount of the players. M+ in Legion was so successfull, because it had casual community, middle ground and omega hardcore (I was somewhere between middle and - omg +23 Seat of Triumvirate gogogo).
BFA in comparison is only made for the MDI. Not everyone is MDI material, 99.99% arenât. Pugs have to deal with a Legion +10 affix in a +2 forward, as well as an addional 4th affix at +10. On top of that, Sanguine, Teaming, Bursting, Explosive and Grievous are all harder. Add increased trash and trash mechanics. And you wonder why there are less players, higher % leavers and increased toxicity in pugs?
The little to no AP also discourages overgeared people to do lower level keys as well, even further decreesing the % success rate of keys.