Fire mage can get 60k dps on massive aoe pulls
Donāt nerf tyrannical please
Just remove it.
Bro fire mage are the best class for m+ no matter what you say.
Just look at the top tier runs and count how many of them didnt have a fire mage.
They are busted as hell and what you say about the burst is true, but they have it every 1min.
And about 7-8kdps on a runā¦I guess you re running 21s with that dps meanwhile a 21 mage does 8-9k. (While giving a buff and being super tanky)
never seen one do 60k Outside MDI in all honestyā¦ and tbh the pull sizes arent realistic nor is the gear/stat builds
how many also lack a rogue?.. should we nerf them too?
I didnt say fire mages arent a BiS Choice for M+. i said its Not only for their damage their BIS and trying to just hard nerf their damage and more continously wont fix their problem.
Yes they doā¦ but they drop to like 1/10 of the damageā¦ iāve seen the logs to those top runs, those mages arent wildly outperforming the other classes on the overall DPS throughout the dungeon
they do tank level dps outside of those burst moments and unholy DKs can almost replicate that Damage in Massive AoE Pulls on short CDs also.
Hence why all top runs are currently Rogue / Mage / DK.
the reason the mage is always there. is because of what it offers.
It Brings the CC
it brings the Long CC (Sheep)
It brings Bloodlust.
It Brings Int Buff
It also can Permanant Slow and Root.
It can combine a good level of ST and AoE into a Single build.
It has 3 DPS Speccs which make it highly flexible.
When iāve seen survival hunters Overall Damage at 7.9k DPS as one of the worst DPS in the game currentlyā¦ im not suprisedā¦ and for reference thats what Psy a streamer was doing in M+ with his Survival hunter.
my point isnt the fact āFire mages are Completely balanced and arent metaā.
its the fact that Hes ignoring like 3/4s of the picture to what makes Mage Meta. and hard nerfing mage damage til it seems āfairā isnt the right move, because ur gonna Destroy the class in raid enviroments doing that.
we have a Affix which buffs ur damage by 40%ā¦ which lends itself into burst damage well but what u do once that affix ends?.. revert all the mage changes afterwards when burst no longer rips through like it does now?
Im sorry. but this is like saying ānerf warlocks based on Raiding logs as they are soo metaāā¦ yet no matter how hard they nerf us we always be there.
mage the same way, uād have to quite litterally absolutely ruin the class to take it otu of M+ā¦ even on mid pack DPS uāll still take it over every other caster in M+ Enviroments.
the fix to these situations is simple.
Restore the Utility ripped out the other classesā¦ the unique tools they did used to bring to the fieldā¦ because thats the defining factors here in alot of casesā¦ Mages just bring SOOO Much more then damage to a group and so many classes just simply dont.
Ur proposed idea will just lead into a turn by turn nerf around a table constantly.
U gonna Push a Mage nerf. then what?
a Boomkin nerf? Then what?
Affliction warlock nerf? Then what?
a Paladin Nerf? then what?
Its Burst meta, U cant just rotationally Nerf every burst class instantly. and even if u were gonna do this itād be nerf down the burst dsamage and buff sustained damage. not try and Target cap Classes harder.
what about those classes that cant do m+ because its only fire mage meta now?
nerfing fire mage doesnt fix the innate problems other classes have which make them worse at M+.
nerfing fire mage wont make shadow priest a better Choice for example, it simply just wont, Nerfing DK Wont make paladin a better choice
why?.. because Mage has BL.
even if Mage does 10% Less DPS then ur Shadow priest, weāll still take mage.
if ur paladin does 10% more dps then DK Weāll still take DK.
because u lack the Vital Utility that we need in M+ Groups.
I keep hearing about classes that cant do M+. Are they getting kicked out of the instance or something? Not getting their own keys either? 
Yeah blizz has to fix this now! That is indeed not fair 
i have 7 chars.
a Survival Hunter, a Shadow priest, a Destro Warlock, a Outlaw Rogue, a Boomkin, a Enhancement Shaman and a Unholy DK
Never had a problem doing keys with any of themā¦ and the rejection rates have been not that differentā¦ so no other classes arent having problems. the issue is People percieve their class is bad because of they dont have representation in the bleeding edge.
the issue isnt a Class cant get a DPS Spot in M+,. the issue is theres so many DPS in the game that the Rapid Declines are happening to all DPSā¦ people just blame their class for the Declines but dont seem to reliese just how many DPS Apply to each group.
When i set a key upā¦ i get a minimum of 60 DPS Queues Before seeing a tank or healer apply.
the issue is weāve reached the time where basically 1400 RIO is the minimum and low keys are āalt runsā who expect high main RIO Scores, so by default ALOT Of people who didnt get the 100 runs in early now are being held back by RIO in most cases. preach is actually doing alot of testing in this atm
well hereās hoping the next meta wont be a burst only meta. and that blizzard give us the reworked classes they promised in 8.3
its primarily the seasonal affix which is aiding the burst meta theme tbh. iād imagine next affix will change the meta again. not to mention in 9.1 blizzard will intentionally nerf and buff to change the meta.
i dont think Any rework could save many classes in 5 man content though sadly
If u think about it a basic group requires
1 Tank
1 Healer
1 CR DPS
1 BL DPS.
ands then depending on the BL DPS u get, u then have to cater to the CC/Utility the group needs
For example if u have a Brewmaster Tank, Holy Paladin Healer and your a Elemental Shaman for example
you litterally are destroying ur own comp taking anything less then a DK/Warlock and a Druid/Mage DPS.
and this is if shroud doesnt become mandatory in the next affix.
Unless ur gonna try fit CRs and BLs into ur Healer/Tank Combo. which pretty much means Blood DK and Resto Shaman. and no pugs gonna push that because their group formation will 10x the Waiting lists trying to be that specific with tank/healers.
so ye DPS get held accountable by itā¦ so we get pidgeon holed.
they could buff the drums to do the same haste
2 Likes
hmmā¦ but then why have BL exist. I dont like the concept behind items replacing classes.
I donāt like how easy 2 bottom top dps frost/fire mage is compared to the specs that use a whole rotation of multitargeting. and blizzard donāt rework that 
ARcane is what fire and frost should play as they need to bring back mana and resources to mage. anyway peace Iām out see the sunlight outside
10 Likes
Far from which? Being high or the other one?
Well yeā¦ but if weāre going on class difficulty Affliction would Rightfully be Among the very bleeding edge of Classes with how much more it has to do per fight.
8 DoT Multi target rotations ontop of several Mechanics and al lDoTs lasting different time lengths.
as i said. its not that i disagree balancing needs to happen. i just find the OPs Ideas to be kinda not well thought out and if blizzard just started whackomoling Random Nerfs out weāll just see every class get slaughtered over time.
there are ways to balance fire without Castrating it. i just dont think M+ Will ever escape that āmandatory utilityā.
One of M+s largest failures is the fact the Esport surrounding it doesnt Work like M+ in the game hence why when u look at ingame top runs the Classes are not identical to what you see in MDIā¦
like if we broke down RIO Statistics it kinda proves the meta in the MDI isnt the same as Live.
did u know current class representation is
6.8% Fire mage
6.7% Retribution paladin?
Groups have taken just as many Ret paladins as they have Fire magesā¦ now would u suspect such a thing given what the forums say about Ret paladins and Fire mages in M+ Enviroments?
Hunters are represented 2x the Mage representation.
Like statistical Evidence would say hunters the problem not Mageā¦ mages are about the same popularity as most classes
Warrior - 5% Fury 4% Arms - 9% Warrior choice
Paladin - 6.8% Ret
Hunter 9.8% MM 4.5% BM 0.8% Survival
Rogue - 3.5% Outlaw 0.6% Sub
Priest - 5.8% Shadow priest
DK - 5.7% unholy 1.9% Frost
Shaman 4.1% Ele 3% Enhance
Mage 6.9% Fire 3.7% Frost 1.7% Arcane
Warlock - 4% Affliction 2% Destro 1.4% Demo
Monk - 5.2% WW
Druid - 8.8% Balance 1.8% Feral
DH - 5.5% havoc
By those statistics, would u not pressume from what is āconsuming the most spots in groupsā as Hunters, Warriors and boomkins?..
when u break down the statistics, Mages arent taken much more then the Averages of the classes realistically.
Cough cough whereās arcane?
Oh dont get me wrong iād love to see arcane be the meta for mages 
i used to love my arcane mage back in MoPā¦ havent played it since Legion though.
right back at yo.
You are listing stats for all levels of M+. Obvisoulsy when you filter for +15ās and up you get a little different ratio. With 3.9% ret pala, and 11.2% fire mage. On +20 and up you have 0.6% ret pala and 24.6% fire mage.
I know what you say, but there is of course a reason for that 
1 Like
Well yes. But whatās the chances the average player is doing +20s
Naturally the higher you go the smaller the diversity is in itself. But Iād also argue alot reroll based on meta and intentiomally play meta which heightens the popularity of the classes. So naturally you have more of them applying.
And the higher u go the more meta slaves are around.
However progression stops at +14 so when I look at stats I generally look around that point
I wouldnāt say Ur class should be realistically playing factor til +18ish ofcourse in pugs this isnāt the reality. But the behaviour of pugs have never been justified imho