Casual player's thoughts - titanforging is FINE

Community General Discussion
182

I don’t think every single person CANNOT enter Mythics and Mythic+'s, what I am saying is really simple. I’ll simplify it again.

When you ONLY do LFR, doesn’t matter what you did in the past, doesn’t matter what you MAY be capable of but cannot commit the time anymore, you should ONLY be given LFR quality gear.

This is what I am getting at. If you do ANY of the content, you get the ilvl equivalent gear. You did not earn, nor do not deserve the higher end ilvl if you can’t put the time in anymore. Why does an LFR raider NEED 360 gear? If all they have time for is LFR, then they only NEED the LFR gear. If they want to progress, they’ll try to find a little time to run pug Normals/Heorics (Plenty of them in the Dungeon window).

LFR raiders SHOULD progress the same way as everyone else, they shouldn’t be allowed to be given Mythic quality gear (Even with a very low drop chance) from an LFR raid.

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183

Really cause to me content feels more gated and lengthened than ever. Id have a full pvp kit by now easily. with a good couple of glad items.

184

RNG, time and skill have always been the 3 components of getting to loot and each activity requires less or more of each and rewards accordingly.

Currently the only reward which might be out of the curve is the 370 piece from just completing an easy warfront. But like, it’s one every couple weeks. That’s around the same you’d expect from some silly justice points vendor or whatever which wasn’t that much different in terms of overall skill requirements.

Anyway, I don’t mind having a lucky few stand out with some peculiar titanforges like a very high ilvl Emblem of Zandalar or something of that sort. It’s unique, why not? Whether they make good use of it is up to them and hey, if it happens to me I’d make sure that was the case. If it doesn’t, I can make sure of that with other items, whatever.

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185

there’s also the 370 for completing 4 normal mythics ( which titanforged to 390 on my main), and the chance of a 370 for killing the arathi boss once a month-ish.
additionaly the 340s from the arathi rares, and spammable WF make dungeons up to mythic 0 difficulty obsolete.
again, the problem is not only the titanforging, is that we get so many loot with an higher ilvl than the content it is rewarded from, that some chunks of content that are supposed to teach the players some game mechanics, are completely skippable, and in order to get upgrades many players queue for content way harder than they have ever experienced before, basically they go from mechanics that are completely ignorable, to the same mechanic that oneshots players and wipes the party, whithout any middle ground.
the learning curve is broken, it is nice to get a titanforge… until you are forced to do content that wipes your party 20 times, causing leavers, depleted keys, and frustration, in order to upgrade it.

186

As a casual too, I can still see it’s bad.

People are gearing up based on luck.

Picture doing a mythic + or a raid . You invite a 380 Ilvl mage. But they have 0 idea of mechanics or encounters, he simply got lucky with drops and go that high.

Ilvl should be a sign of achievement and hard work, not “oh I’m so lucky this week wtf Rolf ”.

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187

Very hyped. Are you a fan of the russian roulette? The basis are the same. The difference you didnt die. the game do.

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188

If you keep rolling the dice eventually the odds will be fixed… that means that someone may be lucky and get a nice drop at the first time but if you keep doing it you will eventually get a nice drop as well… Also luck is in the heart of every game…Otherwise everything would be scripted and it would be boring as hell…
Don’t confuse skill with gear. There are 2 completely different. I may be a skilled player with average gear or an average player with good gear. Skill has nothing to do with TF.
I do agree though that there should be a mechanic that allows player that they do end game content to be able to upgrade their gear through gameplay so they wont have to place their hopes on a good item only on luck. TF is and should be a nice add for some extra gear not the main cause of that.

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189

well and what are you going to tell people, who are only doing worldquests some m0 and lfr and they insist titanforging stays in the game? what do they need better gear for?

You miss my point.

Raiders claim they need better gear to do higher tiers. Sure, I don’t dismiss that, what I do not understand though is why feel the need for exclusivity. There should be multiple ways of getting rewards, not only hidden behind raiding.

So what if I get the same gear as someone else by doing a world quest? That does not diminish anything as I assume people raid for fun - what else do we do in a game? We do what we enjoy and if it comes with benefits the better.

So what is wrong if we all get the same benefits from playing the same game?

190

As a new 3-month old player , my thoughts on the loot system are mostly negative.

It seems clear to me , that WoW copied Diablo’s system , both when it comes to m+ ( which is fine ) and when it comes to the loot system ( which is not fine and does not fit my idea of MMO. )
I believe this was done in an attempt to add duration to the group content.
Don’t get me wrong , i believe WoW has an extremely good ammount of content. 10 dungeons , 1 raid on launch and another coming soon is more than most other games can achieve.

Anyway , titanforging can be viable , but it’s currently a huge overkill.
When i was still doing mythic 0s , i got a 370 ring from a mythic king’s rest. ( 30 ilvls upgrade )
This is extremely unfair and non diserving for the effort i put in at the time.
Yes , i got excited , but it lasted a few minutes , it wasn’t an item i felt proud of getting , it was just RNG.

I think Blizzard should consider greatly nerfing the ilvl boosts on titanforge , something like a +10 lvls cap.
They’ll still see their content duration increase but please please please , contain this somehow.
Titanforge/warforge , sockets , leech/speed/avoidance stats , there is simply TOO much RNG atm.

This is neither Diablo III , nor Diablo Immortal , thank god.
This is WoW , and WoW should be king , not a roulette.

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191

This is, by far, the biggest issue facing gearing these days. It absolutely murders any twinge of excitement anyone could possibly feel about gear.

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192

Not quite, but the only time my guild mates get legitimately excited about gear drops are weapons. Why? Because weapon drops are rare and impactful enough to get excited about. The rest, even if it titanforges it will get at most a half-hearted “yay”.

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I have absolutely no problem with you having ilvl 400 gear from world quests if all you are going to do is world quests. But that isn’t what is happening here. What’s happening is players are getting ilvl 350-370 gear from world quests and warfronts and then going into raids or M+ when they have no idea how that content works. In raids you can sort of get away with it, at least on the early heroic bosses, but in M+ everyone needs to pull their weight. If even 1 person in the group fails, chances are the key will be depleted.

That’s the problem a lot of “elitist” or “hardcore” players have with the system. We don’t care about you getting the gear, but what you do with the gear once you get it.

194

I strongly disagree with you.
You cannot gear up based on luck. You may get a couple of gear based on luck but it will not make a difference. At tops you will get 5 ilvls in the overall gear which is not that big a difference.

Also if you invite a player completely based the ilvl then you are taking a risk and you should have known that. Gear and skill are 2 different things that may have some relevant but having one thing does not necessary mean that you have the other.

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195

You misunderstand me, you can get to 370 purely by doing world quests and world bosses, and get invited to a raid with 0 knowledge of tactics, and as far as dps charts you could overtake someone just simply because you got a titanforge drop, not because you are the better raider.

Also yes, inviting based on ilvl is risky but unfortunately that is the climate of the game. it’s the first thing people look at and the make or break stat that decides wether you join a raid or not.

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196

True, but weapons were even more exciting back in the day, and it’s not far off either way. It’s certainly generally true, even if weapons specifically manage to be a little more exciting.

Azerite pieces would also be exciting provided you could somewhat control the acquisition. As it is, they are extremely frustrating to acquire due to them mainly dropping from lootboxes, and lootboxes are awful.

Speaking of which - the loot system is making this even worse. I certainly felt terrible when I, as a Guardian Druid tank (and therefore as someone with awful damage) got the guild’s first weapon and was unable to trade it.

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197

There are several problems with the current gear system.

  1. Random sockets

Sockets make gearing as frustrating as it gets, more than WF/TF can. I have a 350 ring with socket that is better than all my 370-380 rings.
I have a lot of mythic raid gear with sockets, which means, even if i get a 395 WF from mythic, it needs to have a socket to be better. I have a 365 cloak with socket that is as good as my 390 cloak.

There is no linear progression for gearing, i now have to wait for the right item in 395 + socket or it won’t be an upgrade in the first place.

  1. WF/TF and how they should encourage playing overgeared content

In TBC we had Badge of Justice which was rewarded for every Raidboss and every HC dungeon boss you killed. You could get roughly 20 of them for one full clear of karazan and, iirc. around 4 for a HC dungeon, no matter which dungeon you ran, so even T5/T6 players would do karazan just for the badges to buy 1-2 pieces of gear that they still needed from the vendor or they start equipping the toon for a offspec and want an easy way to collect some gear for that spec by spending some badges.
You don’t need an RNG system to encourage people to play old content, give them a linear progression system that rewards running the content in the first place.

Furthermore, there were items that, like DST or Tsunami that were soooo good, even T6 guilds would run Kara/Gruul/SSC/TK cause they wanted some, very specific, items from those raids.

  1. Gear inflation

It’s not the biggest issue, but still a relevant one imo. It’s so easy to gear a character due to warfronts, weekly quests, flex raiding and how the lockout system in normal/hc works, in older expansions it took weeks to gear for the next difficulty(Kara/Gruul -> Maggi -> SSC/TK), you didn’t get 20 pieces of gear each week, which made the few items that you got feel that much more impactful, as they also were in the best condition they could be (Who feels great getting a 370 item from HC/a +10?), i could tell you every item that i wanted , where it dropped and from which boss, now i just know i want to do x cause it gives y ilvl which means it has a higher chance of foring to 395.

I equipped my 3rd character to over 370 in roughly 5-8 days, i was around 350 the first day i hit 120, which took me roughly 2 weeks before Uldir got released, and over the time of 2 IDs i hit 370, while my neck is still in the 330s.

And, once the next raid comes out, LFR will get 370 items, equal to the current HC content, NM will get 385, current MYTHIC content ilvl. I don’t think that’s a good paste at which we’re progressing, if we would remove WF/TF and go up, maybe 15 ilvl per tier, gearing would feel way more impactful and there would be a lot more content, due to old raids still being somewhat relevant.

I don’t care if a casual player gets a 395 TF, i want the items that i get to feel impactful and i want a linear way to progress my character, even if he is at 380+, apart from praying that some 395 + socket drops from HC/+10

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198

@ Vitani
The fact that you pay the same for the game as hardcore players doesnt mean you are supposed to get the same rewards. You pay that subscription to have OPPORTUNITIES to get rewards, not to directly get the rewards. All of us who play the game have the same opportunities and being worthy/deserving rewards has to be purely based on what do you achieve in the game.

This is the problem with the current game - instant gratification that casuals expect. Work for your rewards and EARN them, this is a game that youre supposed to get long term enjoyment from putting hours into the game and achieving certain goals. Just paying your sub doesnt mean crap, it only means now you have to work for your stuff like everyone else. If you dont and expect luck-based rewards of level that would require commitment (mythic level tforges from heroic) then there are other game where you can just pop a play button and get instant gratification/enjoyment.

Big thing about why TF is horrible is because of this stupid system its hard to distinguish good players from bad ones without using 3rd party sites like raiderio/wowprogress/warcraft logs.

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Oh absolutely, and a lot of that came from players knowing the names and looks of individual weapons. I still remember the first time I saw the red sword of courage drop and thinking how awesome it was. There were other high profile weapons from back then too like Armageddon from Naxx or the Headmaster’s Charge from Scholomance.

These are iconic weapons that left their mark, to the point where players still remember the names when they see them. In bfa I can’t recall the name of a single weapon, or what it looks like. They are just bland stat sticks now.

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200

For people asking for linear gear progression in the game, we can’t have that in the game anymore due to introduction of the mythic + from which people can get better gear and farm it more easier than from the raids. And there are also things like boosts for gold etc which exist in the game for some time now.

Also the chance for titanforging in the game is very very low and everyone has the same chance at it and the game is still designed in a way that the players which do higher level content will have higher item level gear, so its not like its impacting the gameplay so much that once in a while players can get a higher item level item than they should.

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201

It remedies some of the disparity between the gear of normal Raiders and Mythic Raiders. Without Titanforging the gap would be too wide.

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