I’m already doing double the DPS of a 355 rogue, how is that not a big gap?
What is that normal raider using that gear for? For running normal? Then they don’t need better gear for that. For running HC? They will get better gear from actually doing that content instead of staying in their safe space. For running mythic? Same as HC.
Furthermore, no one says there shouldn’t be a way to make your gear better, just remove any RNG element from how an item drops.
If it’s supposed to have a socket, make it always have a socket. If it’s supposed to be an 395 item, make it just a 395 item. If it’s supposed to have avoidance/leech/whatever, make it have those stats.
I like theoriecrafting and min-/maxing. I want to get the best gear that is in my realm of possibilities. I’ve been in freehold hundreds of times by now, i still only have a 370 trinket and i still rock a 350 ring i got in one of my first FH keys ever, solely based on it having a socket. I have a 365 and a 370 version of that ring but it’s actually worse than the same ring in 350.
You know, back in the day casual players were happy with their T4 sets, noone was mad that someone that spend a lot of time raiding BT got T6, and noone expected to get gear equal to T6 out of karazan, while there was still a way to slowly earn items from vendors by doing karazan and other low content, like Slavepens/Mecha HC, thats how progression is done, you give everyone the same possibilities for gear and their own dedication decides how much they progress.
If you don’t raid mythic you probably do other stuff that rewards you in one way or another, like transmog runs, leveling alts.
That player shouldn’t expect to get a 395 item he didn’t work for and i won’t expect to have a full transmog collection/a full ist of alts without spending any time on it.
If you only want to raid LFR thats fine, i don’t mind it, but then don’t complain about not progressing in terms of gear and don’t defend a system that ruins progression for everyone that actually cares about gear.
The gap in the gear between the mythic raiders/the people which do high level m + dungeons and the lfr people and the ones which do lower tiers of the raids can be in the game currently approximately between 20 to 35 item levels and some occasional titanforged item will not change that picture.
I’m sorry, but I see a lot of people who hasn’t left LFR and who hasn’t done any Mythic+ be at 360 ilvl, and yet I’ve done nearly 3 full clears of Heroic uldir and have done up to a +9 (Granted, I’ve only done like 3-4 Mythic+'s on this character) and yet I’m at 358 ilvl. So, please, tell me, does that seem right to you?
Because I have terrible luck with the game, I have less ilvl than people who have barely done the content, due to RNG and wf/tf. Granted, ilvl isn’t everything, and most LFR players just equipped the highest ilvl piece that they get, rather than simming it and other things. But, at the same time, ilvl has becomes so meaningless because of these stupid systems.
I no longer see a 360+ player and think “Oh, look, we have a Heroic raider here”. I see 360+ players and think “Eh, got lucky with gear” even though I don’t know what content they’ve done without checking websites. Ilvl is literally useless now, except for about 370+, when you “kinda” realise that they’re doing the higher content.
And this is just wrong. On average, once you hit 120, you have around 270 ilvl. It shouldn’t take 100 ilvl’s JUST to be seen as someone who is actually doing the higher end content in my opinion.
what benefit are you talking about? titanforging? if so there are multiple of my posts where i point out what is wronf with that and how i would tackle it…
this is only true in progression…
there are multiple ways… you shouldnt be able to obtain items from single player content, which are of the same quality as 5 man content, this goes for 5man and 20man aswell…
??? if you raid mythic there is a lot of " exclusivity" involved, i fail to understand what you mean???
So keep doing higher level of the content and you will outgear them, and I was not talking about the individual cases and about the gearing in a short time but more about the long term gearing and the way how the gearing is working now for majority of the players. Fact is that majority of the LFR players cant reach the item level numbers of the mythic and heroic raiders and the people which are doing higher m+ keys without stepping up in their gameplay and getting into other difficulties but you can see that by the gear gap difference I posted above.
So let me just put on my tin foil hat and say that I think the TF drop algorithm is “rigged” and favors low ilvl characters.
I honestly feel like that TF isn’t just a flat amount of chance for everyone. I think it takes a lot of “different data” into consideration and the fact that Blizzard is so silent everytime someone asks about this makes me think they know we wouldn’t like the truth.
I no longer invite anyone to my raids/m+ who is bellow 370, due to how easy it is to gear up, unless they have curve/mythic kills/ok rio score and even then i was baffled by the incompetence of some people.
On another note i had full curve groups wipe for hours on Zek HC, i’ve had some people with 3/8 mythic kick me after i explained them some essential mechanics, so many people buying curve/boosts nowadays.
Most LFR raiders and normal Mythic dungeon runners are around 355-360 ilvl. Most Heroic raiders are around 360 ilvl. This isn’t able single cases. MOST Heroic raiders are at the same ilvl as MOST LFR raiders. Same as, unless you’re constantly pushing +6 and up keys, most Mythic dungeon runners are around the same ilvl as most +5 key runners.
The ONLY way for people to be different, is if they’re running Mythic raids, or doing Mythic+10’s and up, before they start to out ilvl the LFR raider or Mythic dungeon runner. But, this isn’t all down to raids and dungeons. This is down to all the free, easy gear people can get. The 370 from warfront, the 370 from the 4 Mythic dungeons (Heroic raid quality gear). The WQ’s being able to titanforge, World bosses dropping between 355-370+ gear.
There’s just WAY too many ways for an “LFR raider” to get the same gear as an Heroic raider, which makes ilvl pointless
Wrong, most heroic raiders which played for some time surpassed 360 il by now for a while, especially if they did also mythic + dungeons, a lot of them are currently around 370 il rating or even higher.
This is getting the new norm, yet people who defending the TF system and the state of boost runs keep insisting that no one should care if some lowbie gets a couple of free items, a TF here and there, because at the end of the day it “doesn’t affect anyone else”.
Ye… and people still don’t see the connection between free gear, the inflated gear progression and the ever-increasing requirements for PUG groups. I wonder why is that.
Really, because I see mainly people who have done +10 keys OR Mythic raids at above 370 ilvl, I mainly see people who have either only full cleared HC/Partially cleared HC at around 360 ilvl. Yet, I see most LFR raiders at 355-360 ilvl. There is BARELY any difference between the ilvl of an LFR and an Heroic raider, and yet the 2 difficulties are completely different.
Put an LFR raider into an Heroic raid, and they’ll most likely die to everything and get overwhelmed. Put an Heroic raider into a LFR raid and we fall asleep it’s so boring. 2 completely different player “skill” levels, and yet there’s maybe 5-10 ilvl difference (When, in reality, there should be a 20-30 ilvl difference between the 2).
Titanforging affects so much of this game, but casual players don’t see the affect, they just see them getting better loot than they were expecting. As stated above, because of wf/tf ing being so high, PuG groups are expecting higher ilvl than what’s needed.
You can do Heroic raids at 355-360 ilvl, and yet a lot of groups expect Curve, 370+ ilvl or a really good R-io score. Same with Mythics and Mythic+'s. You can do +5’s at 340-345 ilvl, yet most look for 355-360. You can get +7’s done at 350-355, yet most looke for 365+ people. The ilvl has become inflated for most of the “higher” end content runners, JUST so the “low end” content runners can stay on par with most of the player base.
Ye makes sense. All I’m talking about is a personal experience.
If you check my profile you will see that I run the current content on every single difficulty. Ye, ye it’s a really small sample size but I see far more TF items in LFR/NM raids than in HC/M raids.
We kinda know how big companies in the 21st century like to use data to manipulate the consumers. Adds/microtransactions and the list is endless. Does it seem really that far-fetched that Blizzard would use the “random” TF system to manipulate player behavior?
I’m not saying that it only favors low-ilvl characters. I’m just saying it’s probably much more complicated than how we imagine it is. And to be fair we don’t really know anything concrete about it. Does it have any kind of bad-luck protection for example? We all know how much Blizzard loves BLP.
And once again, I think one of the reason Blizzard doesn’t reveal much about the system is the fact they know it would cause a massive backlash.
A lot of groups demand now 370 il for heroic runs in pugs or around that number for a reason since a lot of heroic raiders ( the people which did that content now for some time and got the experience ) are now at that number , and mythic raiders and the people which do really high keys are now around more than 380 il , I see them with 385 and 387 il of gear even, so your numbers are way off.
My biggest problem isn’t that LFR players get WF/TF/+Socket. It’s that everyone gets it. It makes gearing feel frustrating. I personally rather have a smaller dropchance, but once i get that item its the best version of that item, than a high drop chance with a small chance to WF/TF with a small chance to get a socket on top.
It’s supposed to encourage farming but i, personally, don’t feel motivated to run FH +10 in the offchance that my trinket drops, that my trinket is WF/TF AND that my trinket has a socket.
Might be that not every high tier raider actually uses his WF/TF due to sockets being a thing while someone doing LFR just blindly looks at the number (More than once i saw 355 ppl making normal/hc raids while they have like 6 socket slots unused. Thats the kind of groups i leave without hesitation). Even if i get the items i now have in 395, they won’t be an upgrade cause i have 6 sockets atm.
this may be true but try this:
run content untill you get a titanforged piece, then only run lfr first then normal then hc then mythic
what you will find: you will get alot more pieces upgraded on hc/mythic
thats my assumption, cause of the bad luck protection blizz is implementing everywhere nowadays.
i have no data to back it up but if you are so interested in this you could try that