I’ve played for 4 weeks after the unlock of m+, did a few mid rating arenas and a mythic+ dungeon every week, and am almost on the level of mythic raiders. That’s simply a bad system.
This is not the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is:
WHY should an LFR raider be on PAR with a Heroic raider? I’m cleared Heroic nearly 3 times, and yet I’ve seen people who have only done FLR in 360 gear. I’m at 358 gear.
Why should someone how to do MYTHICS just to gain better gear than those ONLY DOING LFR? It’s just wrong. There’s no progression, just one massive leap, and that’s it.
Exactly. If you only run LFR you get LFR gear. If you run mythic you get mythic gear. You should NOT be getting mythic level gear for afking in LFR for 10 minutes. As I stated in my first post, you get rewarded for the content you do.
Then do the required content to get it.
I agree because the graph for ilvl is broken for you,
|Raid Finder|350+ ilvl|
|Normal|355+ ilvl|
|Heroic|370+ ilvl|
|Mythic|385+ ilvl|
if what you are claiming is true (about running heroic raids) you should be wearing ilvl 370+ and be much higher.
I am sure there is misunderstanding somewhere here in our conversation 
1 Like
The gear may drop 370 ilvl, but most gear in there can be considered a “downgrade” to me, since it’s secondary stats are bad.
But, an LFR raider doesn’t need to be 350+, since it only drops 340 gear, and yet, it’s on par with a Normal raider, and “barely” behind Heroic raiders.
Edit: I made a mistake and said “Mythic raiders”. My bad xD.
2 Likes
You are not wrong but that is up to the devs and asking them to remove something that you believe is broken can only be done by collecting massive amounts of votes.
Sadly, I can only put my point forward, no one elses. But, I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about wf/tf. The ONLY people I’ve seen be happy with it are the people who can only LFR, be it either due to skill level or something IRL getting in the way.
Someone like me, I loved aiming for my BiS gear, that’s not really a thing anymore, unless i get that 0.01% chance of the gear dropping, that has my secondary stats, at max ilvl, with a socket. That’s the only BiS gear in the game, and it’s all based on RNG (Really high RNG).
I’m someone, that if I’m under-performing in raids or dungeons, I’ll leave and get simming, get myself better gear and try to improve my damage more, or read up on the tactics more and learn from my mistakes.
They did recently address the issue of titanforging and said it is here to stay.
2 Likes
As I have thought ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Also congrats on the promotion
Thank you, I smile every time I see one of my posts in green 
3 Likes
I hope and pray we change their minds with enough effort.
1 Like
Yes, although I’m still not sure why. The explanation they give for the system is as nonsensical now as it was back in MoP when it was first implemented. I’m still waiting for a legitimate reason why Titanforging exists in this game, but it seems like nobody can answer that question. sighs oh well.
Ok, so lot’s of good arguments here I haven’t considered - mostly the fact M+ content is locked behind ilvl and I do agree that kind of messes up the whole thing.
So what about chaging the way we unlock M+? Say you need to finish lower-tiered dungoen x number of times? Finish some sort of trial to unlock M+?
At this point it’s hard for me to argue considering I don’t do much group content recently but still it feels nice to drop a nice piece here or there without the need to stress out too much
I don’t like titanforging but I think it’s something that Blizz really like, so for now it’s here to stay.
Oh they clearly like it otherwise they would have gotten rid of it by now, and it’s clear from these threads that plenty of players like it too. I just question whether the upsides to the system outweigh the downsides, and from what I can tell, it doesn’t. If somebody could give me a decent reason why Titanforging is good for the game (besides just saying “it’s fun” or “I like it”), I would accept that and be fine with it. But so far nobody has.
What do you gain by removing TF? You will get a lot of upset folks! As I have mentioned many times, Blizz can not satisfy everyone… it is impossible. Likewise, we do not have the statistics to defend any of the arguments presented here.
As someone mentioned somewhere in the forums, “most players do not really care”. Its not a supported argument either but it is more likely to be true. Take me for example: will removing TF ruin my game xp? NO, will keeping it change anything? NO because i am still not going to do M+/reg,heroic and M raids with pugs.
Is it nice to get an upgrade once in a while after spending so much time running around and not getting anything good at all, sure but I fail to see how I can ever be better then someone who runs M+ or raids on daily bases.
Honestly, I believe that the entire end game pve gearing system is backwards, and titanforging is a part of that. Would removing titanforging magically fix the problems? No, but it would be a step in the right direction.
1 Like
Very much this. The whole iLvl scaling from like 300 to 390 is hurts the item identity so much.
How long has it been since Ulduar was relevant? 10 years?
I can still remember dreaming day and night of the moment I’d get the agility polearm from 25-man General Vezax. The games history is full of individual pieces, shoulders and weapons, that you can remember being the BiS item you desired. Now it feels like… You can have any item of that slot, as long as it happens to get enough iLvl or perhaps a socket. Some other item may have slightly better secondary stat distribution, but that item only becomes relevant if you highroll the titanforging with that aswell.
So how deep did items like that polearm affect me and my kin? Whenever I get tired of my artifact druid forms every now and then, just make a wild guess which polearm is my absolutely favorite transmog. Does it have the best design in the game? Surely not, but you bet it’s the most beautiful pigsticker for me personally.
1 Like
There are multiple different perspectives on this matter.
Guys that think that "im unlucky doing high end content and others are lucky and they have higher gear than me by doing only LFR.
This is totally wrong. There is no way that someone doing “less gear” content will have higher ilvl than someone that doing “higher gear” content. You may be unlucky one time and someone is lucky, but eventually who ever does higher gear content will have higher ilvl gear.
The “you dont deserve that gear” guys.
1st of all why do you even care what gear i have? How has that effect your gameplay? Do you think a casual player will have exceptional gear and you are afraid that he may take your spot in the raid? No, he may have 1 piece but that’s it.
The only big problem that exists with the TF is the end game players
I can see that it is totally frustrating for a person to keep doing end game content just for 2 items that only need to be TF in order to be an upgrade from their current gear. There should be a token system that when you gather enough doing end game content, you should be able to upgrade your gear by 5 ilvls or even add socket.
1 Like
That’s not the point. Noone cares if a LFR raider gets 1 more iLVL.
If you decide to only do WQ/Transmog runs/etc. you should get a feeling of progression on those things rather than gear score, if you want to get a feeling of progressing gearwise, you should have to do content that rewards gear.
If your goal is to reach exalted with every BFA fraction, then your feeling of accomplishment should come from getting every BFA fraction to exalted.
If you decide to actually gear a character for mythic raiding, you will see how frustrating it is to run M+/HC after you have hit a certain iLvL.
I’m 380 equipped right now while still wearing a 350 ring that is better than my 380 rings i have in my bag solely due to it having a socket.
To get an upgrade, i have to run FH+10 day in day out hoping that i get a 370 with socket, a 380+ ring or a 380+ trinket.
There is nothing else that i can realistically do to improve my character anymore, basically all my 385 gear has sockets so i not only need 395 WF/TF items, i need 395 items that have a socket or they won’t even be an upgrade.