It seems that we are playing different game than because for normal pugs , either raids or m+ you don’t need mythic gear to join, and that for the majority. Most of the pugs are asking for the il around the content which you intend to do and not higher, sometimes even lower. And in the most cases you can still see the il difference between the players, heroic raiders are currently around 370 il or bit above, mythic raiders are atm around 380 and higher il , and if someone has some item because I never seen in the game anyone with a lot of titanforged items or who is totally decked in titanforged gear that player still is usually around the il of the gear of the content which is doing. And about the gear item level raiders can now surpass the gear il of the raids they are doing easily through the mythic + dungeon farm.
And when it comes to the past, in Wotlk since the time of Ulduar and further you could join for heroic dungeons and normal raids easy because they didn’t had high requirements and weren’t hard , nor they did had timers, but for anything serious like heroic raids people were asking for achievement and were looking on gear score addon to see what item level you had and all of that before the titanforged system did come into the game.
Yep. We definitely played a different game. No player doing serious content on my realm had gearscore installed. The only people using it were mediocre players with bad gear trying to be smug to players with even worse gear - typically for doing stuff like the weekly raid quest or VoA.
Even before ulduar you could join a sarth 3d pug and do hc 5 mans if you knew how to. Later on I was tanking ICC hc on my alt without even being asked a second question.
Oh give me a break, I know how it was because I played at that time, in the time of ICC a lot of pugs were asking for the gearscore , and the proof for that I guess how still can be found somewhere in the internet archives because at that time the forums were flooded with the threads about the gearscore addon.
Maybe on your server it was like that, maybe it even happened for ICC hc. If that’s the case we certainly played a different game. On my server if you saw a pug asking for gs you knew you weren’t even getting past Saurfang (if you were lucky enough to get there). For normal that is. For hc you could forget it, none of the gs crowd could do hc.
The pugs were asking for that to secure that the content they are doing will go smoother, and nothing has changed much since than because the players are also now requiring the curve to join and do the checks on the io addon.
There were pugs in that time which didn’t asked for that sure but that was mostly coz they were formed by the people from the guilds which did know each other really good.
Most of the pugs (again, at least on my server) that asked for gearscore were for the weekly raid quest. Patchy or some trivial boss like that. The main complaint was “you’re asking me for t9 gear to do a t7 boss wtf?”. I remember this really well because I was often discussing it with a colleague (and a friend to this day) during breaks. His server also had a similar situation.
Players who actually could clear harder content knew that collecting a lot of badge gear didn’t make one competent.
I agree 100%. But don’t be deceived, they’re not asking for stuff to secure a smooth run. They’re doing it to make sure they don’t have to carry anyone. We often invited friends or nice people from rp circles along for the harder content because we could carry them. Sometimes we had to ask them to suicide early in fights (defile could mess you up badly).
Then they could run around, happy with their kingslayer title while the gs guy was still spamming trade. But those were the days before cross-realm raids, so each server had its own community and culture.
It’s a good idea, because how it’s now is just botched i can get slightly better mythic raiding gear IF lucky by doing war fronts and mythic+ plus on average difficulty, regardless if i make it in time.
i don’t know how this is going to be precisely handled in patch 8.1 but i can understand people spilling the salt when some heroic raiding boy has luck and gets better gear then a unlucky mythic raider, also just makes people want to farm heroic raids and mid-segment mythic plus as it just makes it easier to gear towards mythic. effort should be rewarded in games like this.
yes if you got the time and the patience to do so, good luck my friend. no sane person will actually farm 10+ mythics for a chance on loot which has a chance to be actually for the slot you need which has a chance to actually have the right stats you need which has a chance of titanforging which has a chance of titanforging this high. good luck on that, i wish to you not to do so, or anyone else in this regard, since you will burn yourself out even before you reach your first item.
That’s why they won’t do it. For some reason they still think that as long as we’re getting a tf here and there and we see our ilvl go up we’ll be happy. If they cap it at +10, how will we be happy?
It’s called effort, go hard or go home.
If you don’t have time and patience perhaps you should take satisfaction with less, or at least read the rest of text as i mentioned in this game that time and effort should be rewarded, i’m no raider myself but that doesn’t mean i should get an uplift because i’m not prepared to put some effort in it.
It is mostly wasted effort though, and that is the problem, aiming for one specific item at 395+socket is already complete lunacy and that is not even taking bonus stats like Leech or avoidance into account.
That is the exact reason why Titanforging killed personal goals that go beyond “I want my ilvl to go up.” because everything even the worst item (looking at you Ghuun tentacle that should have a trollface for an icon) can forge to a 395 and still be worse than many trinkets.
Or a less extreme example: Your best stats are haste and mastery, like for quite a few classes, now you have those stats on say a 370 item and another item for the same slot forges into oblivion but it has Crit and vers on it. It actively makes your class play worse but you do more numbers, you know the item is complete crap but you still equip it, until you find an item that has your stats and also forges into oblivion, but that requires it to drop and also forge into oblivion.
So you are now in a situtation where you get an itemdrop that should be amazing and make you feel happy you got it but you are disappointed instead.
Effort for reward only works if you can at least expect a certain level of reward, that is maybe not guaranteed but at least at a certain level when it does drop. But with Rng on Rng on Rng you can not have that expectation.
Also time has never been a factor, you do not get more rewards for taking longer. If one guild kills a boss in 15 minutes in two pulls it drops say 4 items, and another guild with the same amount of people takes 2 months and 600 pulls it still only drops 4 items.
yes ofc. and playing the lottery is called effort aswell, since according to your logic, if i play enough that 1 in a trillion chance will definetly hit me some day xDDD laughable
please consider that this " effort " is not fun… i wont run keys like mad and pray to allah for a titanfrorge if there could be a much better system in place, which rewards effort not on a random basis… those comments are really getting under my skin after a while… look here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMec0LSWLs
i did put effort in the game, i ran alot of dungeons and raids to get to this gear, yet it feels absolutely not statisfying since half of the gear with high illvl is crap.
ehm??? how do you fail to recognize that its the same thing?
its balanced across all difficulties… the point of titanforging being bad is not that its boosting your ilvl, but that its boosting your ilvl on random pieces… nobody can complain about it beeing unbalanced, because, like every other system, its balanced around how much content you succeed… the random part of it is bad…
if you had a system where you could grind +7 dungeons, get unlimited of an uprgade ressource and purely upgrade all your gear to 395 it would be the same thing, cause you would need almost an infinite amount of time to achieve that, same as titanforging is now, yes maybe you get one piece of that quality and maybe another close to that doing only the mid segment content, but its still bad game design…
i really lost track of what you are arguing for or against, really confusing. since there has beeen aruged for and against tf in this thread multiple timees already, you dont say anything of value at this point…and neither do i, replying to you…
sorry to say it that way…
How do you fail to not see the difference between spending hours on end on gear that may or may not drop and have someone else doing heroic raids and receive 390 gear while you are doing mythic and only get 385 because you’re out of luck Vs. buying a ticket that gives you a chance to win a pre-determined price of lets say 1m… doesn’t matter if you buy 10 tickets or 1 ticket but you’d still win the same price in the end.
i feared i had to explain this to you. you see the effort you understand as playing the game in regards of bying the lottery ticket, is to go to work and spending time to earn money to buy the ticket. and reffering to the gear that may or may not drop i especially am reffering to that 395 piece you are advocating to or more the whole set seemingly people are aquiering…
so if you fail to see what i meant there im sorry my friend
would be unfair if you join a 1m lottery and someone joins a 500k lottery for half the price you paid but the guy somehow ends up with 1.2m and you just with 1m.