No… that’s not the point. but oke, have a nice day.
we can discuss in discord if you would like to, since talking on the forums seems to be a misunderstanding after another
Casuals getting high level loot got nothing to do with why I dont like the TF system.
That said, these things do.
Never being done farming gear.
Running nonstop content all the time neverending for upgrades alongside all the AP farming (That doesnt even come from the same sources anymore… plz end me now 
) for all them mythic insanely high requirements for the last Azureite traits compared to any other difficulty. As this also hampers the competetive side for logging as there is always ppl with more/less time on their hands, resulting in way less chances for TF / WF drops due to less runs.
Honestly idk how we got to the conclusion that “mythic raiders” need to play around the clock, all day every day. Your progression should be more linked to your skill and craftiness and less about how many 10s of hours every day you do mythic plus looking for RNjesus loots.
As to the argument that it happens very rarely, fair enough but if you keep on going and going and going. Your chances multiply exponentially. Together with the fact that some pieces are just inherently stronger than others. Like some trinkets out there compared to bracers.
Hope this has shed some light on why I dont like TF/WF.
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This is why I have stopped raiding for the time being, despite it being my favourite thing to do in WoW. The raiding itself I can manage with, but all the extra chores we are expected to do outside of that are a huge drain on my time and energy. We have to do the highest M+ we can for the weekly cache, we have to do island expeditions and world quests for the AP, we have to spend hours fishing and farming herbs for consumables. All of those chores can easily add up to an extra 10 hours a week outside of raiding.
It’s sad but this is why I’ve just cancelled my subscription. I have neither the time nor the patience to do a bunch of stuff that is of no interest to me just to raid.
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This is the reason that it’s still in the game, and it’s 100% the reason why I absolutely hate it and everything that it entails.
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You can’t tell that to the majority of players in the game. The game would be empty.
I myself am very willing to put in effort. But as has been discussed in another thread; effort is subjective.
I am willing to grind for weeks and weeks even months and months if it gets me what I desire. I am NOT willing to do content I do not like. At least not on a regular basis.
For instance; I DID do Siege of Boralus (only available in mythic difficulty, which is a total nonsense move by Blizzard btw), because it was the conclusion of a long storyline. Did I like it? No. I hated it. But I did it, because I wanted to finish that storyline and I knew I didn’t have to run anymore Mythics after that. So it was ‘okay-ish’. I put in the effort.
I don’t do the mythic dungeon weekly quest for instance. It would require me to run 5 mythic dungeons, which I just cannot stomach. All of that for a random piece of gear. Nope, not happening.
So, I am definitely willing to put in effort as long as either the reward is worth it, or I don’t find the content I have to do absolutely horrible. I find mythics absolutely horrible, so I cannot play more than 1 and even then I get mad at Blizzard forcing me to do that crap.
Having a choice is the single most important thing in an MMORPG imo.
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Then raid at normal level. You can totally manage there without all the extra side activity you mentioned.
This is what I’m talking about time and again; people are doing this to themselves. Set the bar lower. You don’t NEED to raid heroic or mythic. If you enjoy raiding, what’s wrong with normal?
If you want to do the most difficult content in the game, you are expected to put in extra work. That’s why it’s a niche thing. That’s why only a small % of the playerbase does it. It’s just not for everyone.
People need to be more realistic if they want to be happy in this game.
You don’t need to do it, nobody is forcing you. Seeing the story is a bonus. Extra. It’s a bonus. Not necessary.
You could even wait and it will be in a convenient queue format on hc difficulty.
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And this is where you are totally wrong.
The story is the BASIS for the whole game.
I am definitely ENTITLED to see and experience the whole story. No matter what content I like.
But nice troll attempt there. I see what you did. You are reported. 
- We don’t know that for sure.
- I’m not waiting months and months and months to complete a STORY which should be accessible to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who reaches max level. I’m more than willing to put in the work (rep, dungeons, solo stuff), but forcing people to do a mythic, just to experience the very basis of the game, is WRONG.
We don’t Have to do anything. I basicly just raid, do one-two keys a week, and four Island expeditions to cap out the azerite. I might do one or two emissaries aswell, need those pokemo… shiny pet charms. Neck levels 33, more then sufficient, all reputations exalted trought emissaries alone etc. People burn themselves out by their own accord.
Consumables… as a guild we help eachother out, we all fish, we all basicly herb, we use the guild gold to buy herbs, we help eachother out with mostly everything. I’m in a guild with a age restriction of 25 years guess what, most have a job and family.
Then i play alts. the rest of the time.
For you. For others getting a mythic raid spot is the basis for the whole game. Yet you have no issues saying they don’t need titanforges to compete.
I agree there. They should also put the story in pvp scenarios though, since people who hate pve won’t get to experience them. Also all of it should be in full group content format, so people who don’t like soloing can experience it.
How is using your own argument trolling? Either the argument is bad or you just label everyone who disagrees a toll and attempt to silence them by reports. I’m sorry but that’s petty.
We do, it was announced at blizzcon.
Again, this is your basis. Not everyone’s! 
I consider the story a side thing, I neither mind it nor like it - kinda like pet battles. I have friends that love the story of the game and play just for it. I also have friends who hate having to endure it and can’t skip the cinematics fast enough.
Everyone has their own preferences, it’s not for you or me to determine if they are right.
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I could, but I find normal and even heroic raiding now very boring. And even if I were just doing normal and heroic raids I would still feel compelled to do all the extra stuff, because that’s who I am as a person. That’s why I have gear and UI setups ready to go for all 3 of my specs, even though I have never yet been asked to tank in a raid.
I want to push myself as a raider, to improve my skills and progress through to higher levels, and yet in order to do that I’m having to spend more time outside the raids doing mindless chores than I do actually raiding. It makes no sense to me at all.
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If you enjoy doing that, all power to you. I personally find world quests the most boring things in the game at this point, and I’m not a fan of the timed run format of M+. It’s not even a matter of burning myself out, because that would imply that I once found those activities fun, which I didn’t. Same with island expeditions and warfronts. They were never fun to me, they were just chores I did in order to raid efficiently.
You say we don’t HAVE to do any of these things and technically that is true but let me ask you this: How many people do you think would do Island expeditions if they didn’t offer any AP or exp? I’m going to guess not too many.
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If you want all those things you are expected to put in more time and more effort than ‘regular’ players. Comes with the territory.
You can’t expect the most difficult content in the game to be easily doable. That’s defeating its entire purpose.
So either accept that or lower your bar. You can’t have the best of both worlds, that’s not how it works.
Well honestly the same goes for every single system in the game. People want to be rewarded for their efforts no matter what they do.
You certainly don’t have to do anything, but on the other hand, you can’t ask for rewards when you do nothing.
AP, exp, gear, pets, mounts, etc… are all rewards for doing certain content. You can choose to do different kinds of the content and receive different kinds of rewards, you can choose to do higher difficulties for better and higher rewards, you can focus on a single content and get only the rewards that system provides, or you can do nothing, and expect nothing in return.
That’s how games as a whole work, you can’t expect to win at any game without doing anything.
Why is there this mad assumption that mythic raiding should be a full time commitment? Just because something is hard to do doesn’t mean it also has to take more time than anything else. And no, I’m not talking about practicing my class, etc. I’ve spent many many hours in front of the target dummies practicing my rotations. But the stuff I’m being asked to do outside of raids doesn’t help me improve as a player. I’m not going to get any better at the game by doing world quests or island expeditions.
Let me put it this way. I am a teacher by profession and I spend a lot of time outside of my lessons studying new techniques and teaching methods to improve my work. I accept this is a necessary part of my job and I know it will help me. If however my boss suddenly came to me and said that in order to keep teaching I had to spend 1 night a week as a security guard. This wouldn’t help me improve my teaching, it’s just an extra bit of fluff on top.
This is how I feel about all the added extras that come from progression raiding. On a side note, yes I understand that everyone wants to be rewarded for their efforts no matter what they do (that is obvious). My point was that if Island expeditions weren’t the most efficient way of gaining both AP and exp for leveling, how many people do you think would actually do them?
At this point I feel ready to slam my head into a brick wall…
I’M NOT EXPECTING TO GET REWARDED FOR DOING NOTHING. Holy crap you really think I’m that arrogant and naive? I’m done here, my subscription is about to run out anyway so I’m not even sure why I’m still posting on here. I’ve said everything I wanted to on this subject and others. But jesus christ! You people are so stupid sometimes.
Lol! You worded it badly in the first place, that’s why you’re getting such replies!
Of course if a content isn’t giving rewards not too many, if any, would do it, but what’s your point then?
I think it does.
If you can’t handle that, don’t shoot for the stars.
It’s fine to not be among the best. Noone will think lesser of you (and if they do, they are the kind of people you shouldn’t care about at all because they simply aren’t worth it).
You’re not doing it to get better. You are doing it ‘for getting the privilege’ of running that content.
This analogy doesn’t make sense here.
Working as a teacher is not a privilege. You are doing it as a profession and you are getting paid for it.
Raiding is not a profession and doesn’t pay you anything (except for a very small group of world-first players).
Raiding mythic difficulty is a challenge.
It’s a privilege, not a right.