Casual player's thoughts - titanforging is FINE

[Uvireath-tirion (Uvireath)]

@Amaelia-silvermoon

Why is titanforging a good system? I’m still waiting to hear a solid argument for why it’s a good thing to have besides “it feels good to get a titanforged item”.

Why is “it feels good” not answer enough? In fact, shouldnt that be the singlemost important reason in any game?
It is just nice to see someone in your Raid get a Titanforged Item and be happy about it. It makes me smile every time when they cheer in Teamspeak.

[Antano-khadgar (Antano)]

But we are not talking about skill. I can be a far more skilled player then you, but not putting in 6
Hours a day in a game. So yeah,
I dont really see the relevance of that argument. And Lets be honest, a bad player
In a raid having a very good item,
Is not gonna make the difference between wiping and killing.

[Powerprime-draenor]

i agree on that, i cant belive you fail to see that this is not about me hating on you getting those items…

i dont care what gear you get, i care on HOW we all gear and the way we get it is just plain and simple frustrating people out of the game…

and you misunderstand the way the people here are using the word “deserve”…
or maybe the misuse it…

i understand that someone with alot of time in the game gets more titanforges…
this dude is the best example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMec0LSWLs

it is about where your gear is pushing you in wow… and getting gear like that is only creating frustration and anger from player to other players, and not because someone got a better item than someone else…

The first few paragraphs on this old thread are explaining it very well:

World of Warcraft Forums

[Antano-khadgar (Antano)]

Let’s be clear: i do see the problems people have with the titanforge and warforge system. Let’s be honest: i would hate myself to if i did weeks of content and not getting a single upgrade, seeiing a guildmate getting all the gear he needs and doing sheit.

I was merely talking about the deserve arguments Some of these 15-16 year old kids try to make. Its stupid and one of many reasons why the community is so toxic as it is these days.
I pay the same amount of money,
Therefore i deserve the same chance of experiencing the game as others. All these crybaby’s talk about people getting free loot etc. Etc. U do understand the chance that someone is lucky enough to get drops doing only 1 mythic a week, with titanforge, is like a million times less then someone doing 10 mythics a week and raiding? So what we wine about? For Some mere percentages of “luck”

[Dotsoffun-draenor (Dotsoffun)]

@Antano-khadgar

Well, if the new Guy is far more fit for the promotion then the other one with 5 years into the company, then yes, ofcourse he deserves it more. Other then that, its a really sheit example to make a point.

But people doing LFR and Normals are not fit for Heroic+ gear, same as people only doing Mythic dungeons are not fit for Mythic+ gear, because they don’t have the experience, skill or anything else to receive those rewards, and yet they still get it.

@Antano-khadgar

All those “deserve” people like yourself all talk if free loot is handed out. It isn’t. If u do 3/4 mythics a day, u do 3 raiding nights a week, is pretty sure to say ( like a 99% change) u Will get far more gear then me doing 2 mythics a week and one or 2 raids every 2 week. But in that time, there is a chance ( a fairly small one so it be) i get lucky and get a drop that would have been BIS voor u to, and thats when u all go Bananas and talk about deserve this or that. Complete BS. U still got far
More drops then me, still got far more gear then me, and still outperform me on every level ( if not, im just a hell of a lot better then you, do i deserve the gear more now)

Just because I technically get more gear, does not mean I get higher ilvl or my “BiS” gear. As I’ve said, I’ve seen LFR raiders with 360 ilvl, which is higher than what I have, and yet they could fall asleep at the keyboard and get LFR done.

Yes, I may out-perform you in every way, and this is the point I’m trying to make. If I myself am better at this game than you, why should you receive the same rewards? Would you go to a gaming championship, lose, but then say “I still was apart of this, so I deserve the winnings as well”.

It’s people like you, who want things they do not deserve in this game, that’s ruining the game for others. An LFR raider should NEVER be on par ilvl wise with an Heroic raider, EVER. It’s as simple as that. The whole point of this game is to get stronger, improve, and move to harder content. But, when some noob is running round in 360 ilvl and joining things they shouldn’t be apart of, ruining it for others, that makes the game a lot less enjoyable.

@Antano-khadgar

Its in that case, not so different from the old system. I go into raids with u, i do sheit dps, got a meh ilvl, u rock the boat, got a nice ilvl, and i win the roll for the item thats the only upgrade for u. It
Has the same result, only a different system.

This isn’t the same though, since this still happens. You won the roll fair and square. You may have done less damage than me, but you still was there on that difficulty and put that effort it. This is just a moronic comparison.

If you only run LFR, then you shouldn’t get higher than 340 ilvl. If you run up to Heroics, then you shouldn’t get higher than 370. The whole point of gear is to progress. What does an LFR raider need Mythic ilvl gear for, when all they’ll do is stay in LFR?

[Powerprime-draenor]

@Antano-khadgar

Let’s be clear: i do see the problems people have with the titanforge and warforge system. Let’s be honest: i would hate myself to if i did weeks of content and not getting a single upgrade, seeiing a guildmate getting all the gear he needs and doing sheit.

THIS IS NOT THE POINT!!! i still cant belive you dont see it, it is not about jealousy …

[Powerprime-draenor]

@Antano-khadgar

U do understand the chance that someone is lucky enough to get drops doing only 1 mythic a week, with titanforge, is like a million times less then someone doing 10 mythics a week and raiding? So what we wine about? For Some mere percentages of “luck”

yes i do and i already replied to that above with the video and the forum post, please take your time to read it

[Dotsoffun-draenor (Dotsoffun)]

@Antano-khadgar

I was merely talking about the deserve arguments Some of these 15-16 year old kids try to make. Its stupid and one of many reasons why the community is so toxic as it is these days.
I pay the same amount of money,

And here comes the name calling, I’m not 15-16 and seem to have a better understanding of things than you. You just “assume” you know what I’m talking about. If you can’t understand this has NOTHING to do with jealousy, then you’re a lost cause. If you’re going to talk about toxicity, try to not turn to name calling, it’s kinda contradictive in my opinion.

The players who PLAY MORE DESERVE MORE from the game. It’s as simple as that. Doesn’t matter if you pay the same for the game, if you don’t put the time in, then you don’t/shouldn’t get the same rewards as those who do.

@Antano-khadgar

Therefore i deserve the same chance of experiencing the game as others. All these crybaby’s talk about people getting free loot etc. Etc. U do understand the chance that someone is lucky enough to get drops doing only 1 mythic a week, with titanforge, is like a million times less then someone doing 10 mythics a week and raiding? So what we wine about? For Some mere percentages of “luck”

You don’t deserve the same as people who spend the time putting the time in. This is just entitlement, and is what’s causing the downfall of this game. Too many entitled people play this game and expect to get the same things as those who actually put the time in to work for it.

I get that it’s a low drop chance, but it should be a NO DROP CHANCE. If you do something that rewards 340 gear, you don’t deserve anything higher than 340 gear.

Did you know, in Legion, the amount of Mythic raiders dropped a lot because of Warforge/titanforging? Most of the people who did Mythic raiding only did it for the achievements, since it was much less hassle to get the same gear from Heroic raids instead. And the same goes for now, there isn’t many guilds out there who have completed Uldir Mythic, yet there are loads that have done Heroics. Heroics are more farmed than Mythic, because it takes less effort to get better results.

[Antano-khadgar (Antano)]

Ofcourse i see the point. As stated earlier i can see how this system is not werking for a lot of people. The only thing i am talking about is the nonsense of people having “ deserving” as a argument.

In that case, the arguments against the system u state, i can relate. Its like i can be against smoking, but can’t agree with someone having a sheit argument for it as, for example; i want cigarettes to be banned, because i hate someone who works for Marlboro, instead a decent argument like i want it to be banned, cause it’s bad for anyones health.

[Antano-khadgar (Antano)]

Well, u probably feel im adressing u as a 15-16 year old. If i think that is name calling, u should really get that sand out of ur vagin. Again: i see the points being Made against the system, i havent stated im a big fan of the system either. I just want to make a point that this nonsens about deserving stuff is rubbish. Talking about som .05 percentages of luck ruining a complete game, is mindblowing.

[Dotsoffun-draenor (Dotsoffun)]

@Antano-khadgar

Well, u probably feel im adressing u as a 15-16 year old. If i think that is name calling, u should really get that sand out of ur vagin. Again: i see the points being Made against the system, i havent stated im a big fan of the system either. I just want to make a point that this nonsens about deserving stuff is rubbish. Talking about som .05 percentages of luck ruining a complete game, is mindblowing.

You’re addressing all people who say they deserve more from the game that they play more as 15-16 year olds, and this is considered name-calling. You’re basically calling them “kids” because they feel they deserve more from their time.

Let’s address it this way then, why do you deserve the same as me, if you only spend 1 hour a week to my 20 hours a week on the game? Would you expect to be able to work for 1 hour and earn the same as me on a job? Would you expect to go to school for 1 hour and expect to know everything that I had learned in that 20 hours?

People who only do LFR raiding do not need/deserve the same game as people doing higher content. If Warforge/Titanforge was removed, then those who only LFR will still have gear that they can use in LFR. The ONLY people who benefit from this system are those who barely play the game/do not progress in the game.

Explain to me why an LFR raider needs 360 ilvl? Explain why someone who only does Mythic dungeons needs 360 ilvl? Mythic dungeons are able to be done with 300 ilvl+ people, my 363 ilvl Warlock can carry anyone into Mythics, cause I pull enough damage.

The gear is NOT needed by those who do not progress, and yet they still feel THEY deserve it.

And to think that it’s not ruining the game is more mindblowing than to think it is. It’s destroyed the whole point of “gear progression”. You can just spam +2’s for 10+ hours a day and get the same ilvl as those who do +10’s. So, a lot of less hassle for the same results.

[Powerprime-draenor]

Do you guys not see how you are talking past eachother? you are both missing the crucial point here…

[Powerprime-draenor]

@Dotsoffun-draenor

You can just spam +2’s for 10+ hours a day and get the same ilvl as those who do +10’s. So, a lot of less hassle for the same results.

i dont think this is accurate, on average the ilvl increase through titanforging is about 6-8 ilvl at max

[Udig-silvermoon]

Tell me what you do to deserve that 395? I would be fine if they keep that wf cap +5 and tf cap +10 (and baseline sockets not rng ) , it would just mean you get a bit lucky and won’t break the games gear progression and learning curve. But at the current state , it just makes me question why am i even raiding. It wasn’t this bad at legion , they really messed up huge with rng system in bfa.

[Antano-khadgar (Antano)]

again, what chance u got getting that 395 ilvl on low content? Its as close as none existing. U people talk about it as if 100s of players get that kind of luck everyday, while in retrospect it is not.

[Udig-silvermoon]

@Antano-khadgar

again, what chance u got getting that 395 ilvl on low content? Its as close as none existing. U people talk about it as if 100s of players get that kind of luck everyday, while in retrospect it is not.

I see many of that dropped. Even if it’s %1 chance (which is way higher then that) it shouldn’t exist in the game. Like i said , what did you do to get that titanforged gear? You people just want free gear. Earn it , put some work into it. Just because u pay the game doesn’t mean you deserve same or higher ilvl gear as the mythic raider or rank1 pvper who spend 10 hours of a day to farm it.

I read your prev arguements , u said u deserve the chance to experience game as others. YOU DO HAVE THAT CHANCE . No one says you can’t push higher content. Do something harder and get rewarded better. You don’t deserve that gear just by paying blizzard , it’s not a p2w game.

[Powerprime-draenor]

@Udig-silvermoon

I see many of that dropped. Even if it’s %1 chance (which is way higher then that) it shouldn’t exist in the game. Like i said , what did you do to get that titanforged gear? You people just want free gear. Earn it , put some work into it. Just because u pay the game doesn’t mean you deserve same or higher ilvl gear as the mythic raider or rank1 pvper who spend 10 hours of a day to farm it.

@Antano-khadgar

again, what chance u got getting that 395 ilvl on low content? Its as close as none existing. U people talk about it as if 100s of players get that kind of luck everyday, while in retrospect it is not.

@Dotsoffun-draenor

The gear is NOT needed by those who do not progress, and yet they still feel THEY deserve it.

@Uvireath-tirion

it feels goo

@Papudeath-outland

It kind of ruins the point though, don’t you think? I don’t want to do mythic for gear if I only get 385 items while I could get something better from normal/heroic. It’s demotivating.

@Hekate-emerald-dream

no i have qualms with the progression system being screwed up.
and that is not fluff, that is how progression systems work.

guys sorry for the terrible english and quality of the vidoe but here is a little something i went out of my way making for this thread only
please enjoy:

Gearing System In BfA

[Yolandass-outland (Yolandass)]

Now i am even more confused on how gearing works right now cause so many different opinions i am lost ,which one is the correct one?.

[Powerprime-draenor]

@Yolandass-outland

how gearing works right now

you are right there is alot of opinions and many of those are subjective, i guess i tedepds on waht you want from the game and where in the game you are currently at

[Leymaiden-azjolnerub (Leymaiden)]

I know this is a generalisation, but it’s funny how it’s almost always DPS players who complain about titanforging.

Mechanical execution > gear. Always been like that, always will be. You all talk about meritocracy but forget how said meritocracy opens you the way into content which provides better bases to forge.

It has been shown time and time again that there is still an ilvl curve based on the content a person is doing. There is no one getting over-rewarded and not having their gear average reflect their place in the dedication/effort ladder.