Changes to Player Health and Creature Damage at level 70

Throughout raid testing in the Dragonflight beta, we have noticed that healing has felt too powerful in level 70 content. This has largely been the result of the impact that 10 additional talent points can have on player damage and healing throughput at level 70.

Generally, we increase player health at the same rate as throughput. This ensures that the pace of the game feels relatively consistent across all levels. One recent example is the covenant renown reward, Deepening Bond, that increased player Stamina by 10% to offset the power gains of Covenant abilities, soulbinds and conduits. After further analysis and playtesting, we have decided that in an upcoming build we will bake the 10% increase to Stamina from Deepening Bond into the base stats of level 60 characters to offset power gained from the new talent system and change Deepening Bond to an increase to movement speed in the Shadowlands.

When damage mitigation abilities and healing are too strong relative to player health, the only way to threaten players is to make enemy damage very high and spiky. If healers can very quickly top off their teammates and mana isn’t a limiting factor, enemies have to be tuned to have the capacity to do burst damage that kills players before healers can react. That isn’t very satisfying gameplay. Increasing player health gives players more time to react to incoming damage, and it make players’ choices about cooldowns and mana management more meaningful.

To address this, we are increasing player stamina and creature damage by 40% at level 70 . This has an effect on the power of healing in PvP, so we will subsequently evaluate and consider adjusting the PvP trinket set bonus values and the tuning of Dampening in Arena. We’re also looking at how this change affects the balance of percentage-based healing versus other healing spells, and we’ll make targeted adjustments there if necessary.

We look forward to your feedback and experiences with these changes on the Dragonflight beta. Thank you!

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When can we expect some kind of explanation for completely dismantling discipline priests whole playstyle with less than a month to expansion launch?

do we get the 40% all at level 70? that seems excessive

Alright, increasing player health is fine and dandy. But why ALSO increase creature damage by the same amount?

There’s creatures (non-boss enemies) in Mythic+ dungeons right now (before the player health increase), that one-shot players in +12(!!!) Zero affix Keys with their abilities if people don’t use defensives. Some abilities (for example wolfs jumping random players in halls of valor) don’t even have a prior notice which makes it impossible to preemptively use a defensive cooldown.

So instead of a flat 40% buff to all creature damage, it would be better to increase auto-attack damage only while also tuning abilities indiviually.

Also: #priestsdeservebetter

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It would have been much smarter and more coherent to go back to the basis of what wow was !

Dps that don’t heal as much as healers and have as many defensive CDs as a tank…

Tanks that can hold a dps class without being OS by any dps…

Healers who can heal without dps as much as dps…

Everyone has their role!

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This seems a very late change with large impact, launch is in a few weeks, will there be time to test this change even?

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From a PvP lens, this is very out of touch. We’ve had tons of balance changes based on smaller health pools, and now they’re boosted by 40%? That just means you guys have to rebalance everything. AGAIN.

Not to mention that this change overly benefits classes that have %health scaling abilities. Can’t wait for yet another Warlock expansion.

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Like always,the devs that do changes to specs,dungeons,raids,open world dont play the game at a reasonable lvl and they think with their but, we have so many specs in bad place,bosses in m+ that does 1shot dmg and they increase base dmg of lvl 70+ enemy by same amount of hp increase to players,its like changes nothing or for some boss/mobs abilities will be even more deadly and the 40% more hp will not even count because of the 40% dmg increase to enemy,could be done so much more and much better but if DEVS don’t play the game atleast at decent lvl they will not understand what all players want and say.

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You said it all !

I will add that there was already a crying lack of healers and tanks, so don’t be surprised if it’s even worse with these changes coming out of nowhere less than a month from DF…

For my part I had to do about 80-100 instances on DF, it did not seem necessary to me to change everything…

Thus doesnt need to be tested tbh.

I might miss something but I kinda fail to see how this dismantles it, feels like it won’t change much in terms of gameplay more just numbers tuning up and down and that is to be expected when specs overperform.

I for one approve bigger health pools and looking forward to see how it will work in practice, initial feeling is that the damage output might be too big but that is as always subject to change. I feel pretty secure that the game will be released without this being much of an issue.

However every change they do like this will set back balancing work and especielly I would imagine m+ and even the raid will suffer from it, PvP for sure will just benefit from this I feel.

You have certainly miss something, I do not see it as a dismantling, but it is certainly a big disturbance to the already developed playstile, plus other things, for a clearer explanation, you can go here Feedback: Priests - #243 by Alhenna-archimonde

Paladin’s Word of Glory, especially the Protection version, has to be adjusted ASAP for that change.
What essentially was an integrated part of our survival and playstyle just got nerfed by nearly half.
Word of Glory is a multiplier of BASE value based on missing health, it does not care if you have 300k or 500k health, it will heal for the same poor 15k x 250% based on missing health.
What used to heal for 30-50% of our health, with a strong incentive on using it at the right time below 40% health, now heals for at best 20% of our health. Critical heals for that spell barely move our health bar on beta.

You mentioned you will keep an eye on how that change plays out for %hp based spells, but please give a strong eye on how it plays for flat value heals as well. Nerfing healers is one thing, being the sad by-product of that change as a tank is something else entirely that should not happen. It is a massive nerf, and it needs to be addressed somehow.

From testing on the beta on mythic +13/12.
increase the gap between AP heal tanks and %hp regen (pala/brew vs Dh, gardian, Dk)
Feel awful in term of gameplay when defensives are not even noticeable, damage are really high. Tank %hp regen doesn’t need external healing (we had dh), while everyone else don’t even has a chance to survive from almost every abilities.

The 40% health/damage is in my opinion the worst tuning just a few weeks before launch. U don’t want to make a stat squish, but now we have on first tier 3 times the health pool, and this will result more than 1m health on later tiers. (looks like u did squish on shadowland to avoid these “numbers” and now u take the opposite way.

U had an opportunity to reduce all healing done from healing spec but seems too complicated ? so let’s increase HP and DMG and ruin the fun of other specs.

In my opinion, this change is not the good answer to overpowered healing spec due to collateral issues. I don’t want my offspec heal (shadowmend as shadowpriest ) to stay the same with 40% hp boost, feels irrelevant.

U did point a problem that adress healing specialisation output, but these changes affect everyone.

This is a major concern that should’have been tested a long time before.

Glad I didn’t sub 12 months. This is obliterating the fun.

Its not that bad tbh, really it has an impact for sure. The problem is you cannot takes on huge packs.

The big issue is that this is a blanket 29% nerf to all healers. Which in turn means that “OP” specs like Resto Druid and Holy Priest will continue to be OK, as they can either carpet bomb massive amounts of HPS and/or have the ability to spot heal from “almost one-shot” mechanics on both tank and group level. From what I’ve seen, Shamans get a lot of mileage from their Mastery, which helps to compensate the nerf a bit.

On the flipside though, from what I have seen so far Holy Paladins will be able to keep up with the healing, but severely suffer from mana issues.
Monks seem to be struggling both to keep up with the insane healing requirements and with their traditional mana problems as soon as they have to push high(ish) HPS. This is a recipe for disaster, with healers possibly being OOM halfway through an encounter.
No idea for Discipline, but I don’t think it’s looking great. Discipline have never been that great at spot healing, the nerf to Mindgames and then healing overall might even break them completely for M+ content.

The big issue is that blanket 29% nerf to all healing AP based capabilities meaning all those for non healing spec

kinda hilarious that the goal being more reactive instead off proactive gameplay actually has failed as the game is still sufferering from having to use reactive defensives an mob such as skitterfly in algethar academy or the storm caller in ruby life pool are perfect examples, 1-2 in an dungeon off these unavoidable dmg dealing mobs

As an dps it feels like every healer is afk or presses the wrong spells as my hp bar literaly doesnt move or barely like this change 2 weeks before release has to be the weirdest descision made unless there is an mountain size off tuning, scaling and changes made to the content this was designed for such as m+ which in all honesty is already in shables without this change

feels like it would have been better to tone down healing rather than increasing health pools…