Class design in MoP


#1

Hello everyone.

I hear alot, that class design back in MoP was pretty cool. I never played MoP however and so I don’t know how it was. I played Cata on free and when WoD came out, I came in offi finally.

Can You tell me a bit about? What was so good in that expansion? Especially if We have there some Prot Warrs, that played that spec back then in MoP.

Wish You a nice day :wave:!


(Søssky) #2

For PvP, what I liked about MoP class design was that most specs were somewhat self sufficient meaning they had a bit of healing and a bit of damage. Having that as a baseline made the gameplay and how you approached things pretty interesting.

Most specs had some combination of tanky and immobile or not that tanky but mobile or somewhere in between.

Warlock for example had pretty low mobility but made up for it by being ultra tanky. Destro warlock had really hard hitting abilities but it was super obvious when it was happening and the cast time was fairly long. Destro warlock also had the ember system which was the resource system for damage and healing so you had to choose between dealing damage or healing which was my favorite part of the spec. That decision making was really satisfying when you made the right call, but it always felt like it was your fault and not the Blizzard stupid balancing when you didn’t make the right call and died.

I think that is the general gist for a lot of specs, it felt like things were more under your control because you had the toolkit to deal with a ton of situations if you played it right. Now it’s a bit more pokemon-esque where some classes are expected to beat you and you’re expected to beat other classes because the toolkit is more limited.


#3

I like that.


#4

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#5

I mean… I gave a simple, specifical question… No one talks here about this… I don’t even know, why You started talking about expansions overall lol…


(Brodanyo) #6

MoP was good but it had it’s problems. What was great at S14, S15 was that literally everything was viable. Not kidding. Rank 1 Holy Priest - there you go. Class design had more depth but some cool things from Wrath or Cata were not there. It also brought these new style rotations - every class had instant or cd reset proc. Casters were not casting but procing, warrior was incredibly strong. MoP was like Dota 2 among WoW expansions - everything was ok at everything and OP in some way that made it somehow balanced. I think I had more fun in early Cata but MoP was second behind. MoP was 10x better than WoD, 20x better than Legion and 50x better than BfA in terms of PvP.


#7

Well, that actually sounds fantastic :grinning:.


(Gorewolf) #8

MoP class design was heavily overrated. Everyone had a lot of stuff but it was overpacked in my eyes.

I for sure dont miss things like Second Win(d) on Warriors, completly broken Rogues and Mages especially with Alter Time, my Ret being absolutely useless outside of Wings, BM Hunters stomping everyone into the ground with Stampede and Kill Command Spam, and the crappy legendary cloak everywhere. PvP wise speaking.

And WW Monks being pure garbage at release and then stomping everything into the ground in the later patches with being able to do everything, the burst of a ret, the CC of a rogue, the sustain of a healer and the kiting of a druid. Yeah, no, not fun at all now that I think back of it.

Still love seeing all the typical PvP crybabies keep on QQing about class design and balance instead of finally unsubbing for good, with some of them doing this since the beginning of BfA and even Legion.

Oh how Blizzard has these poor people addicted.

The coolest part about MoP was Lei Shen and Challenge Mode, definitely not class design. Just because it was better than it is now it doesnt make it instantly good.

Thing is, this Game could be really really good right now if Classes would be more in depth. I can only imagine the fun I would have with better talents and a few more spells on my DH in M+.


#9

Didn’t play in MoP but from what i read here and there the issue with mop class design for Blizzard was that everyone had everything.

Every class had self healing, mobility, multiple CC, AOE (? Not too sure about this one) and so on. There wasn’t really much difference between class kits and specs, or at least not enough in their opinion.

I believe having weaknesses is good for the game health and balance shouldn’t just be a matter or dps/hps. Don’t think they were wrong with their decision (make specs more distinct from each other) but they did went too far with prunning.


(Duzurîx) #10

basicaly if u played cata, its the same but more abilities, faster and more fun.


(Søssky) #11

The beauty of MoP weaknesses was that you could work for it. If you played better than your opponent you could shut them down completely by utilizing their weakness while preventing them from utilizing your weakness.

Destro lock, immobile as hell but if you managed to bait out peoples gap closers you could then use your own gap makers to always stay at a distance. That’s not really a thing anymore, especially with DHs with practically infinite mobility.

Every class had a weakness, but it wasn’t as black and white as it is now and I liked that.

Wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows though, most of the time you’d end up trading 1 defensive for 1 offensive and it became a game of attrition so much so that you either won by killing someone in the opening burst or a healer versus healer game for mana so there was definitely some major downsides to it.


#12

Like that? That’s a bit much I guess. No difference between specs, right?

I guess You’re right there. But also I think it’s more about changing than just prunning.
For example I miss so much Enha Shaman old maelstrom system, healing, and most importantly his AoE dmg… Daam man back in Cata I think? You just tanked whole pack of mobs and took them down thanks to a few spells, that worked together, idk names already, but it was about 1 totem > flame shock > lava lash. It was so cool :D. And pvp? Broo I was a beast back then. This Enha seems to me so boring… It’s just about rng… Procs for Stormstrike… Aoe just 1 spell spamming all the time…

My Prot Warr, I’m kind of happy with him. But I still miss old healing like Enraged Regeneration or old talents from TBC like Blood Craze. But still better version than Legion was.


(Gannet) #13

Every melee had infinite mobility in MoP. Warriors had double charge, intercept and leap. I remember they were purposefully leaving melee range just to get the intercept stun (no bait needed). Rogues had their burst of speed, a sprint with no cd that also removed any movement impairing effects.
This was the result of an arms race between melee and frost mages which ended up with a lot of unhappy people. I see MoP PVP getting a lot of praise now but i remember back in the day there were a lot more complaints than i see now.


(Juliuscesar) #14

Literally every spec was fun and unique. You had A LOT of abilities with outplay potential without having to rely on your cooldowns and skill cap was extremely high in general.

I used to spam bgs all day simply because I had so much fun playing my class.
You could just run into a billion enemies, kill one or two and get out without having too much trouble just because you were good at the game.

MoP had its problems but class design was 100% at its peak during the expansion.

Never played so many alts actively. Everything was fun.


(Søssky) #15

Yeah melee did have a ton of mobility, but with a 15 second gateway and demonic circle + CC they’d have to overextend quite heavily to have as much uptime as possible. Using all their gapclosers just to keep up didn’t typically end up too favorable for them, but I was hovering just below the 2k mark both S14 and 15 so I’m sure the melee I fought weren’t as efficient as 2k2 and onwards.

The 2 tier 1 comps were lock shaman and rogue mage so melee didn’t seem as dominant even higher up. Most of the complaints I remember from MoP were about broken specs like 5.1(?) warrior one shotting people with dragon roar and 5.2(?) BM hunter who used the stampede expoloit. The other complaints I remember was how much people hated how boring it was to fight lock shaman.


#16

Also it was the only expansion I can remember where TANKS were somewhat overplayed because their Attack power scaled with the damage taken.
You could see tanks topping DMG meters while having great defensives and they were also independent of healers
PvP was in a way better state. Simply loved it. If you were good at your class you could 1v3 people without any problems.


#17

Different gameplay but same tools. I’m sure the folks here will have a better description to offer tho

I think we would have much to gain if there was more depth in our tools and talents.

To me the peak of gameplay was how Hunters could reflect spells with their defensive CD in cata. That’s just an awesome concept no class currently has and it could lead to great moments of gameplay imo.

There may have been some other cool stuff in mop or wod but that’s the kind of thing I’d like to see in 9.0.


#18

MoP had ten times better class design. Enh shaman was way waaaay more fun to play. Combat rogue was milion times better than outlaw rogue ect. Back then you didnt have gcd wich makes things even worse now. Classes werent resource starved as they are now and they had faster gameplay wich is more fun.

Bad class design combined with gcd is what makes BfA bad. BfA by itself is not that bad really (they fixed azerite) plus 8.2 is awsome patch.

Fingers crossed for 9.0 and better class design.


(Lirena) #19

I think there’s some truth to this, but I also think the devs took completely the wrong message away from the situation. Yes, in terms of their overall toolkit, most classes had access to most things, but in terms of their playstyle they were still incredibly varied and unique. I also think everyone having diverse toolkits was part of what people loved so much about MoP’s class design – everyone felt like they were on a much more even playing field. No one lacked utility. No one had a slow time questing. No one’s class felt like it had to be gimped just so that other classes could have something they didn’t.

There’s an argument to be made for class diversity, for sure, but I don’t think it’s something that should come at the expense of classes feeling properly fleshed out and having full toolkits. For me, MoP hit a sweet spot where most classes felt like they could accomplish everything you wanted while also having diverse ways of actually doing those things.

Class diversity doesn’t just come from being able to fill unique gameplay niches, it comes from playstyle, aesthetics, role options, armour sets, story significance, and so on. I don’t think shoring up the weaknesses in class design was ever a bad thing, in fact I think the devs set out down that path in the first place because they realised it actually made a lot of classes way more fun. It only became a boogeyman post-MoP, at which point we started seeing a lot more problems crop up with class design because the changes being made started to cause bigger problems than the ones they were trying to fix.


(Stepal) #20

Yep. Hunters popping a whole zoo on you was broken for months. Warriors were OP as hell.

Ah yes, the days when people actually begged for abilities to be pruned just so they didn’t spend more time sat in CC than playing the game.

I remember that. Raiding and seeing your pally tank top the DPS and healing meters at the same time…