Class Set Feedback: Monk

The mistweaver 4pc sounds very restrictive considering how often it will be up. I imagine it will feel incredibly more restrictive for Nightfae Mistweavers who already are movement restriced by the Faeline and Dreamweaver haste circle. As a monk i love my mobility but with this it will feel bad if im forced to move. All of this is amplified even further for mythic+ where mistweaver already is performing worst of all the healers.

if you are dead set on keeping the circle i would:
make it quite large (think Resonating Arrow size from Kyrian hunter)
make it increase both damage and healing (giving more flexibility and also buffing mistweavers weak damage in mythic+)

6 Likes

Hi! Mistweaver here.
In my opinion, 2 PC tier set bonus is too irrelevant and boring, increasing the duration of the Essence Font HoT is not something we really want or shock us. Maybe a bonus like: the Essence Font HoT overhealing becomes an absorption shield, or the Essence Font HoT heals more (it’s very poor currently, 94hp after 2 seconds it’s very very poor), or that Renewing Mist further heal affected allies with the Essence Font HoT.
The 4 bonus has potential, but forcing you to hold Thunderfocus Tea is something I don’t fully support, although I don’t see it as bad at all. The 4-piece bonus is the perfect occasion to increase the damage of the Mistweavers, at least for the moment, instead of making using Thunderfocus Tea, increase your healing and period, it would be VERY appreciated, that the rune of Thunderfocus Tea, at least , gave you an increase in damage, equivalent to the increase in healing, that would give us viability in Mythic + dungeons and would make the Mistweavers we can find a way to play without being rejected so much. It is a good opportunity, do not miss it. We do not need more healing, we need to be more useful, and have more damage. Ty for reading :)!

4 Likes

I find the fact the the BrM 2/4 piece set bonuses made it through the internal QA worries me

A set bonus to increase the uptime of stagger that already has 100% uptime. Concern me massively that that team on the BrM set literally haven’t got clue about the class.

I’d love to see the set bonus increase the amount of magic damage staggered. Looking at the upcoming raid I think BrM might need it as the current damage profiles look like BrM is going to get wrecked.

2 Likes

MW 2 set is terrible and boring provides close to 0 healing does nothing than rising mist doesnt do already. please make something about TFT so both 2 and 4 set have a coordinated effect

1 Like

windwalker 2 set bonus is a welcome buff to FoF, although not interesting. The 4 set bonus seems like it will be very powerful, but i’m quite worried about having to line up the damage buff with RSK, FoF, WDP or a juiced up SCK.

It would feel extremely bad to have to use the damage increase on a chi builder or have to put in some ‘filler’ abilities to get the stacks to line up. I hope it’s not too difficult to pull off, windwalker already has one of the more complicated ‘rotations’ as it is, without adding another layer of tracking on top of it.

1 Like

Greetings, monastic adherents. As you test the set bonuses on PTR, some notes and known issues:

  • Mistweaver 4pc has a known issue which causes it to break Soothing Mist after drinking Thunder Focus Tea. This issue will be resolved in a future build.
  • Brewmaster 4pc will be redesigned in a future build. We’ve heard your feedback that you’d prefer a more focused bonus and will be acting on that desire.
2 Likes

Hey my ww monk friends!

Just a thought about the 4 pc bonus.
Would it be better to get a 3 seconds window of serenity after stacking

With Brewmaster 4pc getting a rework maybe consider one of these or similar design philosophies:

  • Celestial Brew now only absorbs Magic DMG, the duration of the absorb shield is doubled and the remaining absorb when running out explodes for damage.
  • 1 Extra Charge on Brews (not really needed, but still an improvement)
  • Zen Meditation no longer cancelling on melee attacks (like the old legion legendary)

Windwalker

2-Piece
The 2-Piece in general is a nice addition since fof lacks of throughput a bit.

The concerns about this are that not every covenant will scale properly with the effect. Right now the clones spawned by Fallen Order(Venthyr) have their own spells which resulted in different weird behaviours over the last year. (e.g. sck/fof are still capped for them, fof only ticks 4/5 times instead of the full 5/5, tp doesnt apply effects like the legendary keefers skyreach, and other such things) So the assumption is that the 2-Piece wont affect the spells of the clones which makes the 2-Piece underwhelming for Venthyr and without further actions Venthyr stays at the position it had for the last year.

4-Piece
The 4-Piece is a bit generic which is a bit sad since other classes have pretty nice designed effects for their toolkit. Outside of that it sounds pretty nice to have and brings a bit of micromanagement into the playstyle without punishing you too much if you dont play around it.

The concerns about this effect are mostly based on experience and datamining. Right now the datamined effect does not interact with any periodic effects like fof, sck, rjw. If this stays like it is the 2-Piece and 4-Piece wont have any type of synergy. This assumption is based on the datamined effect which is the same is it is for the torghast animapower “Hit Scheme” which buffs also only the direct damage and therefore only the first out of 5 hits from each fof-cast.

Other concerns are that the effect wont be applied to abilities that are copied by our clones (since other dmg amplifiers like the enchant “Sinful Relevation” dont affect the clones as well) and that the table of spells triggering the first part of the 4-Piece is the same as the second part. This can lead to losing the dmgbuff to spells that deal no dmg like “Weapon of Order” or “Bonedust Brew”. But the last concerns can be tested on the ptr soon so they are not that relevant for now. Gibberish, ignore that part.

Conclusion
Overall its an okeish setbonus which seems a bit generic in general but the past showed that we monks can make great things out of generic effects. If the setbonuses for Windwalker will be good or bad depends a lot on the exact implementation and if the concerns become true or not.

7 Likes

Windwalker

2 set bonus:

Nothing fancy, solid bonus providing a decent enough damage boost. However it will likely not work with venthyr clones, which will be another major setback for that covenant.

4 set bonus:

Another simple effect, however with large effects. The buff will need to be tracked and will be another way to distinguish the best players from the rest. Holding your rotational spells for longer than a short period of time is likely not worth it, so the impact might be lower than anticipated. As of now, it doesn’t buff periodic damage, but I expect that to be fixed. The proper interaction with FO and sef clones is also destined to be bugged at first.

All in all, gameplay wise the set is fine and
potentially interesting. At first glance the bonuses seem powerful enough without being over or underpowered. I do have some rather large concerns about the correct implementation of the tier set though. There are large potentials for bugs which could hurt the effectiveness and quality of life of this set.

4 Likes

either the 1st or 3rd option would make me a happy BrM

Regarding the mistweaver set-bonuses …
2 pc : is really boring and lazy design, provides very little hps increase, playstyle change, doesn’t sync with 4 pc and provides no change whatsoever.

4 pc : has potential but instead of healing increase it should give dmg increase instead.
Mistweaver doesn’t need more healing , instead more dmg or dr.

3 Likes

As others mentioned for Mistweaver:

2pc: looks boring and basically no change

4pc: interesting, but should also increase monk’s damage

2 Likes

My 2 cents on the Mistweaver set bonuses:

2 piece: The bonus doesn’t really change a whole lot. The biggest impact is that it allows for more reliable double mastery proc thanks to essence font HoT effect allowing for the mastery to proc twice. It goes up to 4 seconds when Fistweaving.
Not only this bonus heavily favors Fitsweaving (which I prefer personally but I don’t find it fair) it also sounds really really bad for Upwelling builds (since you re-apply the HoT on top of each other outside of Raid so the increased duration of the HoT has little to no impact beyond the very last bolt).
The Mistweaver has way too many interactions related to Essence Font at the moment. Essence Font is an excellent spell in raid but is really horrible to use in any other content. Currently it’s being used in M+ only because you made Ancients Teachings of the Monastery triggered exclusively by the use of Essence Font. Putting even more emphasis on Essence Font will create an even bigger gap (which leads to balancing nightmares) between the Raid and M+ performances of the spec. I would strongly recommend to avoid any interaction with Essence Font for both 2 and 4 pieces of the set. It’s already too overloaded (mastery + ATotM legendary).

The 4 pieces I haven’t had the chance to try out yet but to me the design is problematic. Either the bonus is really impactful and Mistweavers are then stuck in a very rigid playstyle where moving is heavily punished (at least a third of the time) or the bonus is so minor that Mistweavers don’t care about the rune and benefit from it rarely (which basically means the set is useless if that were to be the case).
I don’t know many players that enjoy a playstyle where moving punishes you, especially for a melee spec. For a ranged spec I could get behind it to some extent. Quite a few specs are very immobile and get away with it. But again the issue is that the Mistweaver is a melee spec. Even if you are allergic to the Fistweaving playstyle you are expected to stay in melee most of the time simply because many interactions work in melee. Leg Sweep, Spinning Crane Kick (mostly for Mystic Touch application in this case), the Nightfae entire covenant and simply the entire DPS of the spec rely on melee range.
Melee specs are already heavily penalized by how the game is designed, adding another arbitrary layer of restriction that doesn’t bring anything fun to the table isn’t a good idea in my book. Not only that but to me the Monk as a whole is the definition of mobility in current WoW. It’s one of the two very mobile classes in the game so making a tier set that expects you to play against the whole identity of the class is really odd to me. It would be like having a set bonus for Mages that has a moving area they need to stay in to get damage, it wouldn’t make sense.

So what would I suggest since I’ve been fairly critical of the set as a whole ?

First of all Mistweavers are very far behind in terms of damage but are doing pretty good in terms of HP/s at the moment (and the double legendary should make HP/s even more reliable). As several have suggested I would say add a damage component to the set, and a substantial one if possible.
Secondly the healing component needs to be on anything but Essence Font specifically. Renewing Mist or the mastery are the best candidates in my opinion as they are the only parts that are as used for most Upwelling and Fistweaving builds.

Here are random ideas:

  • Crackling Thunder is now an instant debuff cast onto an enemy. Other actions can be performed while the effects of Crackling Thunder are passively channeled. For any Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick (including its extra hits) and Spinning Crane Kick hits done while Crackling Thunder is channeled a stack of Grumbling Thunder is generated. The next Rising Sun Kick consumes all Grumbling Thunder stacks to electroctute all targets nearby. The damage is split evenly between all targets. Maximum 10 stacks. Crackling Thunder has no duration but ends when the target dies or Rising Sun Kick is cast.

  • Soothing Mist is now an instant buff cast onto an ally. Other actions can be performed while the effects of Soothing Mist are passively channeled. For any tick of the Essence Font healing over time effect (including the Nightfae version) and Renewing Mist healing over time effect an Appeasing Mist stack is accumulated. The next cast of Vivify or Enveloping Breath is empowered by the Appeasing Mist stacks healing all targets affected by either Renewing Mist or Essence Font. The extra healing is split between all targets and cannot overheal.

A lot of other things less whacky could be considered like Renewing Mist boosts, general damage boost or targeted to specific abilities.

In short, please don’t tie bonuses to Essence Font, please don’t make the power force Mistweavers to stop moving, it’s a very mobile class, and please put some significant damage boost in the bonuses so that Mistweaver can be a little bit more competitive outside of Raid.

2 Likes

What difference does it make with the sets if the base is terrible.
I’m talking about mistweaver :confused:

He doesn’t need more healing. EF is cringe-afk-spelll.

Give him damage and utilities… Shameful to deal less melee damage than a ranged rshaman. It’s ridiculous even to compare our utility.
Give MW something useful at last, meh.

1 Like

Why should damage for raid content matter? If they want to add a damage boost in shadowlands for me the best option is to handing out some legendary effects that can offer exactly this.

Regarding Mistweaver.

The last thing Mistweaver needs is more hps padding. It’s completely worthless to us, and especially in mythic plus.

The tier would require a complete redesign for us to even consider it over just better secondary stats.
What we properly lack(compared to other healers) are the potential for dealing damage, damage mitigation and shorter response time for random bursts of damage.

3 ideas for the type of Tier bonuses that would be useful:

  • Yu’lon/Chi-ji applying stagger(at appropriate %) to raid/party group while active.
  • Every x sec, next vivify gets a buff, becomes instant and automatically starts channeling soothing mist.
  • Overhealing from healing spells radiate damage(this would naturally be capped by our very limited mana)

I hope this helps.

1 Like

Mistweaver

4p does NOT increase ALL HEALING dealt as its tooltip claims to be. It only applies to direct heals like EF bolts, vivify etc. Not the actual ticks themself. Right now, it’s a letdown and I’d rather have a new set unless a change was made that the increased healing applies to hots. It doesn’t even apply the buff to half our healing, HOTS.

And the 2p, a whopping 2 second increased duration on a hot that doesn’t even get any increased healing from the 4p. Very underwhelming.

2 Likes

Ok after some hours of testing different things this is the current list of issues, bugs and things that surprisingly worked well.

Windwalker


  • 2-Piece
    • SEF is fully affected (which is a good sign)
    • FO-Clones are not affected (as expected)
    • Periodic Damage is affected (good thing)

  • 4-Piece
    • Periodic Damage is affected (good thing)
    • When SCK with JI-Stacks is buffed the JI dmg is also buffed
    • ToD consumes a stack of the dmg-amplifier even tho it doesnt increase the dmg
    • FO does not consume a stack, however the SCK-Cast of the clones will consume a stack if you have one while they start spinning
    • FLS is fully affected (normal hit + ww hit)
    • WoO builds a stack but doesnt consume the dmg buffs EDIT 09.12.: WoO works exactly like BDB, building a stack and consuming stacks without gaining anything
    • BDB builds a stack and consumes a stack of the dmg buff without any increased damage
    • SEF is affected by the dmgbuff when your initial spell (not sef, your attacks that are copied by them) is affected, however SEF is heavily bugged rn and needs attention since the clones consume additional stacks of the Primordial Power buff without buffing anything further
    • Every attack that triggers mastery or stacks hitcombo (except the listed stuff above) generates Primordial Potential and consumes Primordial Power properly as expected

Googlesheet from testing with additional informations: Click Here


Conclusion

Overall its a pretty nice thing to play around in the initial testing and it rewards managing Primordial Potential properly with FSK/CJL as filler. The overall power is a thing we still have to find out but rn its expected to be around 5% gain from the 2-Piece and additional 4-6% from the 4-Piece if you play around it. If you dont play around the 4-Piece its throughput will be halfed roughly since way more pells like Tigerpalm or other low hitting spells will consume the Primordial Power buff.

4 Likes

After some brief testing on the Mistweaver set I can confirm that the healing is only on direct heals (I haven’t checked the Rising Mist one, I really hope it does). The bonus feels very underwhelming because of it especially in a world where Holy Paladin is overpowered and so far at least has an even more ridiculously overpowered set.

The rune however was quite bigger than I feared it would be which was a nice surprise. I don’t think our mobility will be too impacted. Sure you will lose the rune regularly in M+ and sometimes in some raid fights that require swapping positions but since Thunder Focus Tea has a rather short cooldown I think this part is fine at least.

But yeah the 2 set is still worse than any trinket, talent or random conduit (which are already pretty bad for MW to begin with aside from one) and the 4 set I’d need to test it in high keys to be sure but it felt underwhelming. Sure if it procs from Rising Mist on all Targets with a HoT you can get a decent value out of it, same for Upwelling if you channel within the rune. But beyond these two spells the 4 set will have little to no impact and I would be surprise if it accounts for more than 1% of HPs.