Classic Consequences


You’re talking about speed as if it’s equal to effort. Well maybe you are. We were talking about effort and you’re focusing on the fact you got the ilevel jump In a day (I’d be very interested to know how exactly you did it and how long you played for because whilst I’m not saying it’s impossible, it’s not something someone can do in 1-2 hours of play). Let’s ignore the fact you “did it in a day” because that’s irrelevant when looking at how much effort it actually took (what you actually had to do).

What you did have to do was “do your rotation”. Okay, let’s actually examine that claim a bit more, because you’re presenting it as a simple factor on purpose I suspect to make it seem like it took you zero effort to get the gear.
So you what, you just did your rotation on target dummies and got gear? No. That’s insane.
Okay,so clearly you didn’t just “do your rotation”, you were actually doing some other stuff that dungeons require, like moving, and dodging. Etc. Also “429 ilevel”.

So either you got Insanely lucky repeated titan forges (unlikely) or you were doing mythics of the higher variety. Right, so you were dealing with mythic affixes then. So clearly this is a bit more than “I did my rotation”, you were doing that, and you were navigating mythic affixes that require dodging, timing and spreading dps, watching threat, etc. Whilst I’m not saying these are in themselves, impossible, the point is even this alone makes any pve content in classic dungeons and raids look like boar slaughter in elwynn. “dodge volcanic oh noes” is like a raid boss mechanic (and the only one probably) I’m classic. So yeah, if you were doi g mythics with affixes, congrats you were already having to do harder content in terms of individual player skill than classic.
And rotations, well your rotation is probably infinitely more complex than any classic rotation anyway. I won’t go into that - FROSTBOLT SPAM AH YEAAAAH, SEAL OF COMMAND AND JUDGEMENT ONCE EVERY 10 SECONDS YEEEEAHH.

Right last part, you got enough to buy three 430 mythic 7+pieces in a day? Impressive. I assume you’re talking about the azerite pieces here because you can’t actually buy mythic gear other than this. So that’s the 9000 residium a shot pieces at 430.

So in a single day, you earned 27000 titan residium from activities and drops that pertain to that day alone? I mean, if you really were 369 ilevel to start, there’s no way you’ve been doing higher mythics to have that tasty chest weekly waiting for you, right?

445 azerite pieces scrap for 10k residium a piece. Azerite can’t titanforge, so there’s no way you had 445 azerite pieces on you to scrap. As WQs scale to ilevel largely, if you 360 starting point is true, most of the azerite gear you’ve been getting from WQs would have been in the 385-415 range.
Even if we assume 415 on every world quest, just to be nice, they scrap for 365 residuum a pop. You need 74 of the them to reach the 27000 cap to buy 3 430 pieces. So you’re telling me you somehow picked up 74 415 azerite pieces in a single day. Riiiiight. How? Azerite gear doesn’t drop from mythic plus, so if you were relying on lower azerite gear from heroics, well, let’s not go there, because they a rap for even less.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is, I don’t actually believe you bought 3 430 pieces in a single day as you progressed from 360 to 429 ilevel. It doesn’t add up. There is no way at that low of an ilevel to get the residuum required unless there’s something going on you weren’t telling us about, like you were boosted through some raids and groups and and scrapped the azerite.

I’m happy to be proven wrong, i just find your claim… Well… Unbelievable. Tell us how it was done I guess. And how much playtime did it require in those 24 hours? I mean, you’re trying to forward an argument that bfa throws gear at people “as per normal” but it seems to me you would have had to go to extraordinary effort to do what you’ve done, which undermines your claims actually.

So how did you do it? The ilevel jump and the 3 430 piece purchase. You logged in, ilevel 360…and…go! What happened next?


Last one said subs increased

And first one had normal MAU? What’s your point. ?


I’d be interested in how you managed that, as I’m barely 430 average, 425 equipped and played since launch. I get that you can get up to 400 easily, if people will help you. But to get fully geared to m+10 level, that’s not 1 days work, even if you are carried by meta class.

Edit, I asked for second opinion, boosting came up as an option, which would explain a few things.

(Alexima) #84

Yea. For about a month or so. Then people will run out of things to do in classic and come back to retail. And guess what? When they’re back, anniversary’s here with lots of goodies, and new patch and all the shiny glowy things blizzard offers.


While I agree with you that this is probably what they’ll be doing, it wouldn’t be healthy for Classic, its community (in particular), and a reason why having seperate Subs would have been better (which would also, in all likelyhood, have made the initial number of Classic Realms more realistic).


Because that is exactly the kind of pattern that causes the EverQuest (I& II) Progression Servers to die out time and again, as the ‘Last Patch Only!’ -crowd polutes the direction of the Server by demanding (far) faster ‘Progression’ of Expansions/Phases than the actual Retro Server playerbase does.

With EQ this kinda-worked for a time - the ‘peasants’ eventually succesfully ‘revolted’, now No Box and Max Progression Servers are no longer of the table - because in EQ1 especially the desire for powerlevelling isn’t so much met with cheesy AddOns but by full Multiboxxing ie extra Subs, and the number of still-running Servers is so low that merging a decrepit Retro Server with the ‘Current’ ones has little impact.

With WoW the situation is rather different, there is a serious number of Servers of either type, with just too many people to just jostle about.

And from a monetary POV ‘Classic Content Locusts’ aren’t going to multibox en masse, let alone in such number that P.O. the Retro players would be a smart move.

So I don’t think that using Classic as a ‘pacifier for Current’ would be a smart move.


It’s quite easy i started at 360 3h before reset did a level +11 mythic opened the chest at 10 , played for the next 12h doing +7 mythic’s + the heroic warfront boom that was it


So as 360 you did a plus 11, without communicating at all, ie boosted?

Let me go and find you a medal for being an awesome player.


Multiboxing was a thing in classic trhou :confused: lol

(Jito) #89

I don’t know. I think a shared subscription and an overlap of content releases is the ideal.

I mean, if you just want to do Classic or Retail, then it doesn’t matter. You just commit and carry on as per usual.

But if you want to do both, then you’re obviously not getting a better deal by having to pay two subscriptions. And you’d also end up in a terrible dilemma if Blizzard were to release patch 8.3 for Retail and Phase 2 for Classic at the same time.

Having overlap and letting players ping-pong between Retail and Classic is probably the best solution for the playerbase as a whole. It’ll probably cause fluctuations in player activity as people come and go depending on whether something new has been released or not. But that’s kind of already the situation today. I think Ion Hazzikostas termed it “cyclical”.

But we’ll see.

(Alexima) #90

the one day argument is total bullsh*t.

But it actually is easy to lvlup with mythic+. With dedication, You can get to 440 in a matter of a month. and sooner if you’re lucky.

The game just reached a point that mythic+ gives you a lot faster and better loot than anything else out there. Including raiding.


+11 awards approx 17900 residuum.

So for your claim to work, the heroic warfront (which gives only 430 gear) gave you an azerite piece, which you scrapped for residuum. You’re still 8000 short of 27000.

So the only way you made up the rest is by scrapping WQ azerite for between 115-365 a piece, that’s still about 25 pieces. You can’t get that many WQs that award resid in a day.

So to make up the shortfall you must have done island expos, and the mission reward gave residuum both pre and post reset. However the mission takes nearly a day to complete if you use half mission champs. So I don’t see that working.

So I don’t actually see how you bought the 3 pieces. Spamming plus 7s,i can get behind, but they don’t give you residuum.

Also, note, spamming plus 7s at 360 ilevelish requires effe tively being boosted, as does being pushed through a plus 11 at 360 ilevel, so when you say “low effort” what you mean is “I was being hard carried/boosted”, and that’s like “breaking news bears defecate in the woods” type logic. It actually does nothing to further the argument that for the average player getting gear quickly is a low effort enterprise if you had to go to the trouble of playing between a reset on the weekly and getting boosted through mythics to do it. If we all had that at our backs, then of course its a piece of cake. If I had a raid carrying me in classic it’d take me zero effort to gear up as well, it’d just take longer. I don’t see your point and I still don’t see how all of what you claimed to do (namely the 3 430 piece purchase) adds up.

Seems to me you’re making a very general off hand claim like “yeah well I did x in a day so…” to make it appear casual and purposefully omitting lots of information which actually shows how you had to go to meticulous effort/planning/non casual means to achieve this, because including that would expose your argument as hogwash.

It’s like me going “yeah I made the top of Forbes’ billionaires list in a year… Np, if I can, you can too lol” whilst carefully leaving out how I had a raft of super rich donors pumping me loads of projects and money and essentially doing the work for me.


Oh yes, Uhmm, Please enlighten me? Unless you drop constnat titan forging, its jsut not true for a normall player o get to 440+ average.

(Alexima) #93

Normal players don’t even get to 420. 440 is for those who do dedicated dungeon runs with the focus towards the specific items they want.

We had players with 440 ilvl a month/month and a half or so after 8.2 started. Something that is near impossible for anything other than dungeon spammers. You can’t do it with pvp. you can’t do it with raiding, world questing or anything. Only mythic+. That’s the argument here. Not the hypothetical scenario of me finding out that it took 45 days and not 30.

PS: Here. I edited the sentence so you could understand it better and don’t get confused and misunderstand.


+7-10 dungeons 12h you get to 430 or at least near very damn easily you just need to know the right ppl aka ask your friends to help it’s that damn easy, imagine running 12+h with full leather grp where you get all the items. And no this is not rare thing a lot of ppl do this or then they simply buy wow tokens to buy boost same thing you just need to use money.

(Keydiam) #95

Well, Battle for Azeroth is the first expansion which completely killed my interest in the game. I cannot find any enjoyment in it and everything I liked to do feels so…boring. I’m no PvE-player and I always loved PvP but…urhg. I log into the game, look at my characters for a moment and log out again.

On the other hand I logged into one of the stresstests for Classic, created a paladin, used ‘Seal of Righteousness’, fought a wolf and was hooked. I’m going to play paladin. One of the most boring classes in Vanilla during leveling as you’re basically auto-attacking. I’m going to farm some copper and leather in Elwynn, get one or two 6-slot-bags, go to Westfall and die to a Defias Pillager. And yet, I’m still looking forward to it.


Depends what you mean by a normal player. I consider myself pretty normal. I play a couple hours most weekdays and one day on weekend. On my main I’ve just reached the point where I’m consistently doing +10s or so every week. I’m at 434 ilevel, but yes it took me from patch start where I was 364 ilevel till last week to hit that point.

I’m not the most obsessive dungeon runner, I prioritised rep and flying over that, but once I hit 400 I started climbing mythics slowly doing at least 3 a week or so.

So yeah the idea that the “average player” can make 440 in a casual fashion has more bull in it than my avatar.


But but but…That can’t possibly be! Classic is supposed to be grindy and boring, and how could retail ever be boring when it spoonfeeds me content non-stop and all the QoL features that prevent me from wasting any time on useless stuff like talking to people or running to places?!


Really though, at the end of the day the simplicity of what you said is the main reason why I don’t think any changes to retail will make it appealing enough to the influx of classic players - it’s just too far down the rabbit hole to go back now.


Retail will only benefit.

Sure, the first month, two… maybe three…? will hinder BfA, but lets me honest, BfA is about to hit a content drought with or without Classic.

My definition of classic being a success is that it is a blast for a month, then dwindles off, then becomes a niche but dedicated community such as OSRS.

If Classic is a success, it will create a mental hype for retail WoW, classic people will still want to be part of the WoW world even if they dislike retail in comparison. It will also change retail for the better.

If it fails, well, then I guess things go back to normal.


The point is you made the claim like it was a meer fact, and now you’ve been challenged, we see its not a mere fact, its that you shortcutted the game to get gear quickly. Well stop the press somebody, because this has completely rocked my world.

Also, you made a very specific claim of buying 3 430 azerite pieces which you still haven’t accounted for, and seem to have stopped talking about, instead focusing on “well anyone can get 430 ilevel quickly if they just boost like crazy with rl money” (you’ll be telling me water is wet next).

So did you buy the 3 azerite pieces in one day as you claimed or not? I’ve presented how I don’t think it’s possible. Either declare how you did it or essentially admit you were making stuff up to try and demonise bfa gearing. I’m not denying you got boosted (not exactly standard play, assuming everyone should be spending lots of rl money on tokens to get boosts. That’s a very distorted view of what everyday play is, even if it is technically feasible for all) from 360 to 429. I’m saying your original “and I bought 3 430 pieces” is a load of cobblers. And it’s important to follow this up because in many threads like this people make throwaway claims like yours about “welfare epics” and aren’t challenged, and are In actual fact lying or severly distorting the truth.


I consider myself pretty normal. I play a couple hours most weekdays and one day on weekend that’s less than a normal casual player. this closes my case you hardly play the game and still you are here talking i’m out peace.