Oh I forgot an important one!
Varimathras and Balnazzar still being around. Balnazzar is still posing as Grand Crusader Saidan Datrohan of the Scarlet Crusade, and Varimathras is still Sylvanas’ right-hand man. Nathanos in the meantime is still sitting at his old house with his hounds and the Alliance doesn’t know yet he’s now the Forsaken Champion.
Each expansion has brought with it fundamental changes that have drawn it away from the original setting and bastardized it, whether we’re speaking aesthetically, story wise or just the general tone of the game. I know it’s not specifically lore but the game takes itself so much more seriously pre Cataclysm they might as well be alternate universes. More to the point a vast, vast majority of the lore has been retconned since then. Before Matt Ward 2.0 got his hands on WoW. You’re going to need to do some heavy reading if you want to see all the differences. It’s like comparing pre 7th edition Warhammer Fantasy to modern Bubblehammer.
Regarding the history of the orcs - in Vanilla nor players or characters seemed to know (correct me if I’m wrong) until TBC that the orcs’ original skin color was something else but green. If someone NOW started roleplaying as an orc in Classic, would you say it’s fine to be aware of it? Not staying entirely true to all the old beliefs or information we had in Vanilla that were later shown false? On hindsight it seems strange all orcs would have forgot about their skin turning green from its original color?
Older orcs knew (like Drek’Thar, Saurfang, Eitrigg), but If they were born after the war on the Draenei, they may not have, unless they saw one or were told of it. Those born on Azeroth probably had no idea.
Telddrassil is cursed and is withering. Causing the wildwife to go nuts. As a new Night Elf, you try to both cleanse and contain the corruption
Now unless I’m going mad here! I was under the impression that the novels from around 2006 explained that the orcs skin turned green. Specifically Rise of the Horde. It touched on what happened when the clans were exposed and gave in to Fel back when it was corrupted/raw arcane drawn from the twisting nether rather than it’s own magic school. I can’t quite recall all the details but there’s a page where Durotan notices his skin is starting to turn, Aggra at the time is also complaining about living in the Cithadel or being camped outside it? Thrall is born green too unless I’m mistaken. Good book.
Yes, but in-game we weren’t aware, and the question is if the Orcs on Azeroth knew about this.
It seems needlessly nitpicky then to pretend it’s some kind of great secret when it’s from an official lore novel of that era. There’s nothing to suggest it’s a grand conspiracy or that the orcs aren’t aware. Folllowing in TBC when we first make contact the shock isn’t that they’re brown but that the Mag’har are alive, so I don’t think it’s a secret.
Edited: First contact questline: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=9400/the-assassin
As I said, would the orcs born on Azeroth know? I don’t Think their parents told them, as they may very well havent thought about it, nor remembered it (demon blood is a hell of a drug).
Drek’Thar, Eitrigg and Saurfang, would know and remember, but it’s not important to them now, it’s in the past and they’ve chosen to go forward with Life.
Right but if we go with that then we’re speaking for lore characters and making suppositions on their behalf. Personally I don’t think it’s outlandish and having looked over the questline, I can’t find any sources where brown skin is a shock? If we’re going based on our own thoughts then as a tribal elder I’d make sure they know the past so they don’t repeat mistakes. Does anyone else want to weigh in? Any orc roleplayers out there?
I can’t find any sources where brown skin is a shock?
We have this bit in the short story Garrosh Hellscream: Heart of War:
Nevertheless, he was quite alone, despite being surrounded by his people. Everywhere he went, people stared. The news had spread quickly that the son of Grom Hellscream lived and had come to Orgrimmar, and at first he had assumed that to be the reason for it. But one day he overheard a young child speaking loudly to his mother.
“Look over there! He looks so strange!”
“Shush! Be quiet!”
“But his skin! It’s not green like ours! What orcs don’t have green skin?”
Garrosh turned toward the child who had spoken. He still stared, wide-eyed, sucking on one finger in the corner of his mouth. Garrosh stared right back, and he briefly caught the mother’s eye. She looked away and grabbed her son’s arm, quickly hurrying off. Slowly Garrosh slid his gaze around the walkway, silently daring anyone who had overheard – the street was quite crowded – to say another word. No, my skin is not green; it is brown, said his eyes. I am one of the Mag’har. When he was satisfied that he had adequately intimidated any onlookers, he turned and slowly continued on his way. He had only gone a short distance before a light hand on his arm stopped him.
Garrosh whirled around, surprised.
“Forgive me, young one, but I might explain.”
The speaker was an elderly orc, his hair long since faded to silver but still braided into a knot. The multitude of scars upon his face and arms made clear that he was an experienced warrior indeed. Garrosh glared at him.
“What do you have to say, old one?”
“That child spoke the truth, but he doesn’t understand it.” The old orc shook his head.
Quoted from page 4
With this in mind I agree that it’s indeed likely not all orcs on Azeroth were taught the history of their skin color! It’s implied that not only the wee child stared at him for this reason, but others probably as well.
Edit: adding to this after reading the short story a bit further:
From the same page:
“You cannot know what it means for those like me to see you. Once the curse was gone we were free to remember what we had abandoned, and what we had destroyed. We thought there was nothing left of what our people had once been. Seeing you…" He broke off and looked Garrosh up and down. “Knowing that our past is not entirely lost… that there is hope for our future.
One thing to keep in mind for orc roleplayers is that to Azeroth orcs’ knowledge, all the orcs living on Outland might as well be dead, and the Dark Portal closed forever.
Durotan and Draka are dismayed to find that Thrall is born with green skin, so older orcs probably know, and it’s written here and there that the green skin is a mark of shame that they bear.
From Chronicles volume 2, page 128:
“This should have been a beautiful moment for Draka and Durotan. Instead, it filled them with horror. Their son’s skin was green. He was infected with the orcs’ blood-curse. For Durotan, this was the last straw. Gul’dan’s pact with his masters had damned the orc race for all generations.”
And then they tell Orgrim about it, so I imagine the green skin = fel magic connection was probably known, but like many things considered lost history among some of the internment camp orcs.
This tidbit comes up when Garrosh comes to Orgrimmar as “the first Mag’har” - from Heart of War, page 4:
“That is ridiculous. You never even fought in the wars! You said you were children in the internment camps! Isn’t that enough punishment? Why should you suffer any more?”
“I bear the mark all the same,” she said, holding up her hands—green, as were her sister’s, as were all the orcs in Orgrimmar, save him. “I reap what all of them have sown. Is there not some payment owed?”
So there seems to be at least some cultural awareness - even from some of the internment camp orcs - that orcs weren’t always green.
Maybe it’s one of those things that younger generation orcs thought were just old people’s ramblings. If you’re raised as a gladiator slave, orc lore of coming from a different planet must seem like a very alien (hah!) concept.
The Forsaken, as a people, were incredibly sympathetic and fighting a war against the Scourge, worgen and Scarlet Crusade. However, the upper echelons of the Forsaken were incredibly shady. They had dealings with groups such as the Twilight’s Hammer, Legion cultists, Grimtotem (who were not as of yet outright criminals) not to mention their development of the plague took their apothecaries from Darkshore to Silverpine.
Edit: There is also a questline horde-side in which you find out someone (Alliance) had discovered all these dealings and he was going to Stonard to inform the Horde there of what has been transpiring. Just for you to kill him at the behest of a forsaken deathstalker.
Edit: Quest chain: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nothing_But_The_Truth
Oh, but they were.
They were enemies in certain zones, to both Horde and Alliance.
WoW lore isn’t perfect and relies on a fair bit of retconning to allow for elements of surprise and something new to look forward to each expansion. As always with retcons, players are free to employ their creativity to explain why their characters, of course, couldn’t have known about this plot twist in-the making.
I always assumed that the insane high of the blood haze and the abysmal low of the lethargy messed up with their memories somehow. The endless massacre of the surviving orcs made them all forget about their original skin colour, their shamanistic ways (only starting to reconnect with the elements since warcraft3), the space-goats and of course, the Naaru.
It’s a nice touch that way, though a part of me will die inside every time I encounter an orc in Classic reminiscing about the good ol’ times in Garadar.
PS: Oh yeah, speaking of shamans, this reminds me about warlocks and the forsaken.
Without the hero classes to worry about, and with the threats on Azeroth on a significantly lower scale, warlocks, the forsaken and the Fel were considered to be the most consternation-worthy playable characters available. I wonder if that kind of discrimination takes root again
Warlocks to be shunned, feared, and having to hide their practices. Hmm, that will be good indeed.
Why would anyone want to RP in classic, though?
Like, poorer models, less ingame options like potion of tongues, less races (no, I’m not only not playing classi because it has no void elves. There’s… also… no nightborn or bood elves.) and I imagine TRP would be more limited too.
Good, we don’t want you. Filthy elf lover! >:|
If you want to RP only according to old lore, then feel free to do so. Oh, by the way, in Vanilla, RPG was still canon, which means there are few thousand half-elves in Stormwind (and Daelin Proudmoore also has half-elven bastard daughter).
Muh good old lore, amirite?
re: Dorlas
TBH I’ll take RPG lore as canon any day of the year simply because the RPG books do a much better job at world building the universe of Azeroth compared to what the game provides. It actually explains origins of multiple organizations instead of just going “well, they exist, so now you fight them (or you fight alongside them)” and it feels rather nice.
A certain example that comes to my mind in terms of factions that are just there for you to fight them are the Bloodsail Buccaneers, who actually have a rather believable RPG story of their leader (who was a duke and used to rival the Proudmoore Admiralty in his navy) being racist against non-humans and therefore abandoning a settlement of Kul Tiras which mostly consisted of gnomes and dwarves. Similarly, it’s explained that Bloodsail’s rivalry with Blackwater Raiders stems from the duke’s racism against goblins and supposedly the Raiders having killed the duke’s son.