Coward debuff in PvE

Many of you had seen death clips, where some rogue/hunter or other lucky to not have aggro on them use vanish/FD or safe spot to bail out via HS, leaving their party to die. Sometimes they leave situations that can be salvaged, but without their dps/healing the party is doomed for all/some party members to die except for fleeing coward.

My suggestions is adding the same 72h game time Coward debuff like for fleeing or /forfeit a Mak’Gora duel to the death on players who:

  • Leaving the dungeon using HS/portal whatever, while party is in combat. If combat was started after player started casting HS that shouldn’t count to prevent debuff griefs on players who disagree with mad pulls.

  • Leaving combat and staying in dungeon, but out of combat, while party dies in it. If you are the last person alive or if paladin divine sacs for you this shouldn’t count. If party has like both Rogue and Hunter being last two alive, whoever bails out first gets the debuff.

  • Leaving offline during combat by using Petrification flask or Light of Elune with or without Atl+F4. Yes, that should be applied to raiding as well. If that wasn’t server fault and you DCd logged in much later (more than 29 seconds window) , so got teleported to the beggining of the instance/raid and survived combat you should get the debuff.

What are your thoughts on Coward debuff for bailing out from PvE encounters?


As I actually do agree with the “coward debuff” being applied I think this debuff could be grieved BIG.

There is already a couple of situation where I can think of that this could be used to grieve others big time, 3 days ingame time is A LOT, they could maybe reduce it to 24h orso.

Could you give some examples of how Coward debuff can be griefed on others besides starting combat after player pressed HS, that I mentioned?

Rogue pulls mobs, waits for any action from other player to go off, vanishes. All die, those who try to HS out and suceed will have your debuff

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And gets debuff according to

As well as everyone who HS out leaving someone coghtankcough with mobs.

Treat people with respect and you will see that people rarely leave.

I wouldn’t care much about the perpetrators debuff in that scenario as a survivor. But i would be upset if I got it

Generally I understand your sentiment that it feels outrageous to desert your party but I would suggest this is part of the social aspect of an MMO; it matters who you group with. In HC it really really matters. Regulation would be counterproductive. Do you really expect every random you meet to lay down his life beside you? When is an acceptable time for anyone to call it a lost cause ? What if I don’t like you? Or want to pay you back for an earlier slight vs me or my guild? Etc. the less rules the better, let the drama and social interactions decide the outcome

The upshoot is that a good tank or healer - the first to die in a group - will end up being a HC superhero if he/she ever makes it to 60. Dps will be selected on their trustworthiness, i.e. propensity to duke it out vs bailing early when things go south. Things will balance themselves, heroes and villains will be borne. This is how an MMO should be

At the very least I expect him be responsible for over pulls that he makes and participate the fight for whole group lives. Well in softcore this wasn’t an issue. You just wiped and went back to instance to try again. But despite HC not having luxury of being able to ress, people still behave like they play Wrath or Retail with their rush mentality and over confidence. I was there in 2005 and can play very slow and safe with all the LoS pulls and CC if needed, however people having bail out skills think they are Immortal and do crazy stuff usually making others pay for it with their lives. Debuff is the very least that should make them think before rushing party to their demise.

When you are last one standing. Your life - your call, untill that it is up to party leader, or tank or healer.

So if we both are alive, but you want to get me killed in an instance “accident” your should get any punishment stated by the rules for griefing.

So instead of figuring out small rules in terms of getting debuff, you suggest I should not take any hunters, rogues, mages or warlocks?

prepare to be disappointed. once people overpull and realize they might die, they will use any means they have to get out and leave you in the ditch to die your heroic death ( and run agane)

i agree with your sentiment, but i think you will learn that building a social group is going to be key to successful dungeon runs for you. no new rules will be introduced, random people will continue to act like complete d*cks. it is going to be you and a bunch of other players - strangers or friends - out on the boat in the storm together, some have lifeboats, some dont … make of it what you will

why ? assume i hate you and i want to get you killed (in game of course). why do you need to bring in Blizzard to be an arbitrator ?

we differ completely in our principles. i say let the players and community work it out. you say, let the company regulate it to everyones benefit. given new Blizz track record to basically break everaything in classic that they touch i think i have the upper hand :slight_smile:

If I’m in a group that screws up a pull and it’s going to be a wipe, I’m definitely hearthing out, why would I just stand there and die? lmao

You are defiantly eligible to do so, no one asks to turn HS/portals/summons off in instances. The point of this thread is giving coward debuff, so that you bare a tiny fraction of consequence for your deserting, compared to whole party sent to character creation menu.

Yeah you shouldn’t be punished for a tank or a random hunter pulling and wiping a group, literally no sense in punishing someone from hearthing out of that

If you see some Ill moves like tank aggroing too much earthing out before combat shouldn’t count as I mentioned, however you griefing tank can hope healer takes aggro and hunter can just FD leaving party to die. For this they should get 72 h debuff.

uhm, so every time we go BWL we gotta find new tanks to tank 2nd boss?
You do realise that we HAVE to HS out on this boss to prevent death.

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Specifics for encounters are for Blizzard to deside. I am talking about general situating and bailing out griefing.