I just wanted to get this off my chest, but I honestly believe the current system to be flawed.
I’ve read multiple threads here where people are complaining about the unfairness of punishing the key holder and I agree. It is extremely punishing for your ability to progress when trying to offer your key up for the community to run it. I know I get to pick the team (in pugs) and as such I’m in control of who I invite - but if I want to experiment with compositions or allow the team to experiment with the route I alone carry the punishment for failing.
This is bad and is why I’m mostly reserving my own key for a pre-made team and holding it back.
I think the system would be much better if it worked in a ‘pvp ladder’ way. Once you complete a dungeon you get the loot (reward) and attuned for a higher difficulty. A +2 or +3 completion would speed your way to the top faster.
On the other hand I think that once the timer has run out the dungeon run should be stopped as well - without giving loot or end-chest rewards. I think that some risk keeps the experience spicy and interesting.
Couple that with an official and ingame supported ranking system so you can see where players are, progression wise, would be, for my part, an extremely welcome addition.
Finally I would like to say that with the valor system perhaps it’s time to just have that currency to drop from dungeons and have vendors offering items for sale.
I don’t think this will fix the “pug is horrible” mentality in the community - but it would make people less inclined to self censor their keys and be more ready to pug. I think over time this would lead to a (slightly) healthier m+ community that is more friendly to new players.
Reason being - you don’t punish the key holder exclusively anymore - but rather give everyone a valid reason to disband once it’s evident the timer is progressed beyond the point where the dungeon can be completed.
There’s already a valid reason to disband: the timer expired. Many people choose not to, and are upset when someone doesn’t like that decision, and leaves. With this idea, you remove that choice.
Imagine this: you’re in a key, pushing, last boss is at 100k HP. The timer expires. Now you have no loot, it doesn’t contribute to the vault, and you wasted half an hour.
It would not. It would lead to less pug runs, because not timing suddenly becomes a much bigger risk, so people would seek pre-made teams instead. So all that remain in pugs is those who can’t find a team: a metric ton of DPS, and bad tanks and bad healers. Good luck with that.
You take away the challenge and fun. Why start keys you can’t time? We slowly climb and get milestones every time. Your suggestion makes you not do the upgraded key since it is not finishable.
To be honest I don’t care about the consequences - it’s not a cardinal point in my argumentation.
Let’s just agree that you and I think differently. I like a consequence of not timing a dungeon much like pvp’ers don’t get conquest and rating for losing.
But the current depletion system is flawed and that’s my cardinal point. It’s obviously fair if you think differently - if you want free loot from failing I can understand that.
To be honest. Trying to change a system and not wanting to think about the consequences definitely shows how different we think. I am not saying everything is perfect about the current keysystem at all. But when a change has terrible consequences i do think that is mentionable.
And we dont do keys for loot. Your statement about free loot from failing is nonsense. That untimed +17 is really not important for loot. Keys is about challenges and overcoming difficulties. That means you get somewhere your first +x done, and you want to do the x+1 that you are not going to time. But you are doing the challenge and get experience in that +1 higher key while you work on better coordinations till you also can time that +1 higher key.
How do you come to this conclusion? You are not controlling other peoples characters and thus can not be responsible for their shortcomings.
I recon the majority of the playerbase feels the exact opposite to this, that worse players are taking advantage of using their own key to be carried by others, rather than what you proposed.
The key system is not perfect (affix combos vary too much in difficulty), but most of the “problems” with it only exists in the heads of a very small minority of the playerbase that has bad experiences in Mythic+ pug groups.
What I meant was I don’t care about whether or not there should be consequences of failing - the details are for Blizzard to figure out.
What I propose is basically that keys don’t deplete and you get to choose what level you want to run the dungeon in - possibly forced to the lowest progressed member of the party.
Just what are you asking? I didn’t come to any conclusions in that text. I literally listed an opinion never stated anything as factual or derived an analysis.
I like the UI suggestion in another thread (see link). I think once you unlock a difficulty you should always be able to play the dungeon at that level or any below it. Keys shouldn’t deplete.
I’ve seen multiple good suggestions to address the current problem with keys - you have little to no control over them.
When you time a key, give players the option to continue pushing the same dungeon or re-roll the key to a different one. Could be a simple as putting 2 keystones in the chest at the end. 1 key is the same dungeon, and the second one is the equivalent to the current system where it’s a different dungeon.
Let players interact with the keystone holder at the entrance, adding the option to reduce the keystone level or simply restart it. Especially having the ability to restart the key without dropping the level would prevent a lot of frustrations with people leaving the group in pugs. The restart function probably should have a cooldown to prevent abuse from constantly starting over and over if the run isn’t perfect, like an hour or so.
