Is destro that much better for m+ than demo? i mostly play demo and doing 18+ 19+ keys atm. Each time i join a dungeon i’m getting asked to switch to destro.
In that range of key level this is mostly people mindset… kids watching MDI, they see the damage number and wanna play their 18-level key same as MDI players to just barely make it in time, just to be carried with meta class/spec.
Play what you want. I play my Affliction at 21-22-level of keys atm, sometimes ppl kick me from the party for it but it’s not a reason to care. There are typically many more things which matter and allowing you to time the key instead of which class/spec you play, example: routing, cd-management, covenant-bonuses management across dungeon, tank and healer dps, interrupts etc.
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Ye thing is i like demo way more than destro but mostly when i queue i get asked " destro?" then meh : decline
You are paying for the game, play what you like 
It’s a little helpful if you will start doing your own keys and/or find guild which is focusing in M+.
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I haven’t been asked to swap spec yet. I was kinda expecting it after the MDI. Everyone and their great aunties dog suddenly becomes a pro dungeon expert.
I swap between both specs, depending on dungeon and affixes. Both specs are really good, just play what you want and sod anyone else that tries to enforce anything different.
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Demo is amazingly good if it’s played well. The only reason it isn’t the current meta is because destro is that bit better.
I haven’t either, which is a good thing because I’ve only ever played demo. I’d be like, “Sure, I can swap if it makes you happy, but you’ll be carrying me, not the other way round.” LOL
That’s weird … both are very competitive and both are S+. One is more ST but has excellent AOE as well.
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Thanks to everyone for the awesome replies ! cheers !
I would not say so, the two are pretty close, but I think Destro scale better for multi-target better than demo does.
It is also the spec that is being used in MDI, so clueless people just opt to take destro more without understanding how either spec works.
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You need more brains for demo and destro appears to be sliiiightly better too. In other words, no wonder most locks play destroy now since it is not only easier but also generally deals more dmg.
Haven´t played enough on both speccs to see whether one has more utility or not, but cant think of anything other than the stun vs counterspell. Maybe demo has a few more tricks up their sleeves? then again infernal is an additional mass stun, so there is that…
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I would say the additional stun is more of a hindrance than anything else. It makes your other, stronger stuns have reduced duration due to diminishing returns so they go stun immune faster.
Demo is a little bit harder to play out and lacks the offensive dispel, but that is about it. Demo is better to start out with because, even if you do not have the tier set you are doing respectable amounts of damage. Destro on the other hand lives and dies on the tier set, because without them your AoE damage is primarily tied to infernal.
well, in that case, stuns are infinite as destro. Demo does not have that in its pocket.
If you are chaining stuns on the same enemies yes. Otherwise no. Because of CDs and the fact that a dungeon consists of many packs its nice to have answers to different pulls. Think of the utility of stuns when tanks want to reset their necrotic stacks. You only need 1 AOE stun every now and then, but in this case it is nice to have two options. Not just shadowfury, but also your infernal. For Affli warlocks in legion the infernal was of course a DPS increase, but not a mental one like for destro locks now. I.e. it did not have any particular synergies with other abilities. Therefore, you could use the infernal as a Stun without losing too much DPS and thus use the infernal for its utility (the AOE stun) more than anything else.
How is it infinite? Infernal is still on a CD and although you can reduce it quite a lot by spending shards its not like you can reduce the CD so that infernals are spammable
you are stunning them with the one from the set. And it is spammable.
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If helping out the tank with a stun means delaying your infernal, then no, it should not be used for that.
In an AoE pull situation with infernal up right now with the set bonus you can easily throw down two or even three plus blasphemies, which means back to back 3-4 stuns, which means the 4th one will already be immuned by the enemies you throw them on.
It is the same with paladin wake of ashes proc. I was in a dungeon with one who’s constant procs made the enemies there stun immune, and thus I could not stun the lifesteal attack of one of the abominations because it was already immune to stuns (the only way that attack can be interrupted).
Having the stun on infernal is nice, but in my opinion blasphemies should not have it on them.
This is not what I meant. I got a bit sidetracked and was thinking more of when affli locks had access to an infernal. But the fact that Destro has another AOE stun is normally better than not having it, although infernal is not always used optimally for its utility because it is part of the rotation.
However, I only just got 4 set on my warlock and I hadnt paid attention to that blasphemy also stuns, I can see how that becomes a hindrance. I also noticed when tanking today how annoying it is playing with destro locks since they kept stunning enemies in sanguine pools lol
If they do not die with 3/4 stuns then something is really wrong with the dps. Well, honestly it should not have it since some classes - warlock, dh, etc. actually are taking talents for stuns. Having it by clicking one button 3 times makes those talents laughable.
Infernal stuns for 2 seconds, the second will stun for 1, and the third for half.
I may not be an expert, but I have never seen a DPS burn down fortified packs within 4 seconds on actual key levels for example.
All warlocks have Darkfury baseline, and I honestly doubt they pick a talent to reduce its CD by 15 seconds in place of a personal defensive (instant heal)/instant cast CC (Mortal Coil) for PvE.
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The whole stunning part from only warlock takes around 10 seconds. Meanwhile, other classes are using CDs as well. So within 50 seconds, the pack must be gone even in fortified 20. I know how fast murlocs are dying in gambit.
Usually, my 3/4 stuns are enough to clear them without even forcing others to use theirs.
Anyway, that’s not the discussion. Both specs are ahead and both are S+ tier for m+. I will never ask somebody to change from demo. Even demo ST (Wilfred) does more in AOE then the rest apart of Survival/Destro.
I still haven’t been asked to swap spec, or had any issues… but this just happened, haha!
https://imgur.com/a/OnDMIOI
It wasn’t even a high key.