So i leveled this ret paladin up and got to a ok ilvl
are they even good in raiding (dps wise)
i have 10 hours played at lv 60
this is me btw Demigodcarry
Hey
No you did not waste ur time.
I have 2 rets in my raid group, they are always middle of the pack with good gear. So they are not usless at all. Specially if you are doing heroic content.
They are very strong in PvP
All three specs of paladin are great, with holy paladin being the best healer in pvp, and very strong in m+ (middle of the pack in raids as well)
Do not listen to anyone else trying to drag you down, enjoy ur paladin 
Since you care more about raid DPS I can say say they are right in the middle when it comes to DPS, and if you become very good in ur class you can do better than others = ) By the way I don’t play ret, I’m just answering you according to what I see in my raids.
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Well if you want to be able to compete on damage they are really bad atm, doesnt really matter where they sit in raids overall. Ret has one of the easier rotations of this game and not much to acutally keep an eye out for so its easy to get good efficiency and even with extremly good logs and some random noobs diying and giving you wings from time to time they are at best middle of the pack.
And those under can easily be above if they just execute their rotation better. And if no one dies you won’t get wings so your damage will be even worse.
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Well, I wouldn’t say that ES-sera-FR has it so easy, because you need to execute perfect order of everything, otherwise you are going to lose pretty massive amounts of damage.
And I’m not sure if it’s “easier” rotation anyway. I would rather say “there is barely anything to press because every single thing is on CD all the time”.
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Well, Kyrian build ain’t that easy. Sure, if you’re playing with only passive spells, it’s easy. But the fact that burst is being set up makes bursting harder. Easy would be BM or DH.
Paladins regarding of their spec can provide a lot of utilities within the raid, for more damage, and even saving your healers or fellow raiders with blessings of sacrifice , freedom, and keeping them alive with heals.
Yeaaaaah… That’s why they are taken only for last bosses and are fed with Power Infusions to pack up maximum possible burst and phase a boss.
If your raid roster has to rely on Ret’s healing, then it’s definitely a healer issue.
At the cost of dying myself… (Bring back the glyph or bake the glyph in the spell)
Quite irrelevant.
Damages is not ret’s strenght. It’s rather a weakness.
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If you want to play M+ you wasted your time, very low chance to get invites.
Ret needs tuning, simple as that. You have no raid specific buff that is desireable to stack past 1 pala with Devo Aura (usually provided by a Healadin due to Auramastery). Why bring Ret over DKs with AMZ or Warriors with Shouts if the player is not far better / overgeared? Mostly only if its because casual anyways. Same thing for Rogues in Raid btw.
You might want to check “Melee Meta Discussion in 9.0” from Guild Limit (world first mythic Nathria).
If Ret Aura would be Unique like DH, Monk, Warrior Buff or AMZ, then we would be better.
In M+, as of the past weeks, Survival Hunter is above us now. In truth we are last, because everyone below us has a better performing spec.
In PVP its fine, I guess.
Ret aura as an damage buff would great however the current design is a downgrade compared to bfa.
IMHO some buffs from Wotlk would be brought back.
The coldown heavy design makes our dps hard to deal with, first we require pulls big enough that are worth to use them and then the tank needs to produce threat fast enough that we can do our dps.
As long we get no nervs to our defense.
pvp we are the best maybe just below warrior
i got 1.7k cr in 2 days i used to play a death knight
ret paladins one of the best mele specs for pvp if not the best
but pve feels like my dmg sucks
I think that if Seraphim would be a baseline skill it might solve most problems for Ret dps in PVE. This way we have an other maybe smaller dps cooldown inbetween pulls when Wings are on CD and can still go into DP for the RNG Burst and action. Or increase generator dmg like CS, which as awful. Or increase Condemn DMG / give back Excorcism. There are quite some options, BUT it has always be with PVP in mind, which is the main issue here I guess. Because if our Burst gets even stronger… oh well what do I know. Also pls reduce threat generation.
Utility wise there were a lot of options in the past, from Blessings to Seals or even adding crit% to the raid, which could be a fine buff to ret aura from a ret pal specificly. Or give the whole raid a buff if someone dies, which at least makes it great to bring 1 ret for progress. I guess then you can also let people die on purpose to BR them for more Execute DMG or Ankh, so maybe too abusable.
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Going to argue, Ret can be up amongst top dogs in a raid, seen it within my own guild raids as well as watching others. As gear gets better, rets will climb up anyway, just like warriors will.
Not sure what our top paladin is stacking but he manages to sit in top 3 of melee dps on most fights. I know his talents are not icy veins “best choice”. still doing an average 6k dps (aoe and burst he manages to get up in top third). His gear is about 218. I play Ret as my main alt and my gears about 206 and I can’t get near his dps…
Outliers doesn’t matter in terms of balance. And empirycal data is clearly against Ret in all PVE content.
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Empirical data, lol. You mean data extrapolated from the masses of peeps that rolled FoTm Rets to pvp in, and fail in pve? That kind of data?
And with that, i mean the numerous new rets, with no real idea how to play them, dragging ret “apparent placing in raids” down.
Warcraftlogs ain’t bad data, since those data are being provided by players themselves.
On average, ret is a middle tier spec, but if only looking at Classes, then it’s a bad class (I’m saying class because paladin has no other alternative as regarding dps)
You know that most of top parsing Rets are geared through pvp, because PVP trinkets are the best? Oh wait, you don’t know for sure.
Yeah, very interesting that it’s only Rets that have SO MANY bad players. Boomies, Fire Mages, UDK - god damn, only elite top tier players play these. It just cannot be that they are just BETTER classes, certainly it’s player fault.
Do you work for Blizzard? Because they could probably use people capable of making up excuses to not do anything -> “Everything bad is player’s fault! Guys, we are done here!”.
Thats a point if you take all logs, maybe. If you just look at 99% percentiles at singletarget encounters which are most likely filled with good players you will find Paladin in the lower third.
Ohttps://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=99&boss=2398
Still better than DH or Warri, sure, but when also considering Rets heavily random based damage (ranges from 4.5k to 6.5k with mine) and top logs always being made of lucky proccs, Ret is probably lower than DH in average dps.