Do you think that Classic WoW Success

I was hinting more at sets, transmogs and external powers that affect your class spells, rather then give you a random proc of a random stat or does something that has absolutely nothing to do with your class or a set that hits a specific theme that does not line up in any way shape or form with most of the specs in existance
I mean I’m basically a paladin running with corrupted gear, Now lazerbeam go brrr haha and that’s fun and all when it happens but still that’s complete opposite of what you’d expect a paladin to be

As for class abilities, yeah shield block isn’t going to do much for dps warriors but stuff like seals for paladins and aura’s are something that can be put on the whole class so it just depends on the ability

I agree, I really despise those rented powers. The reason why I liked cata/mop (WoD to a certain extent) class design and philosphy was the fact the charcter’s power came from himself (instead of vanilla/bc/wotlk where we depended on others to get said power) or legion/BFA(That power is not mine, it feels bad).

I was quite sad about auras returning instead of seals. Even if seals are just passive, we at least had to switch seals (Not often, I would agree). But auras? They are just a set and forget spell. At this point, I’d rather blizzard changed the way they are being used instead of just set and forget passive. Also, I don’t like giving back a spell only for the sake of giving back said ability. They should be at least reworked and buffed, because well, we do have inquisition and hammer of wrath, but they feel really bad compared to what they used to be (Hammer of wrath is no longer top priority and inquisition is less holy power efficient).

The problem is that the classes really have no direction anymore, it is truly just a vessel for a few specs to play with. Back in the day (taking Classic as an example), classes were good at something: Paladin was a good healer with great cooldowns, but you could specialize in dealing damage or tanking next to that, OR you could make your baseline stuff be stronger with speccing healer. As soon as classes gain a core to work with again, we can start talking about class identity.

Well, as a DPS player, I don’t see things this way. Paladin being only able to heal is a good bye for me. I do agree that supportive tools are core for the class, but there are much more than just heals, such has blessings (Not as good as they used to be), raid cooldown (RIP) and usefull blessing (RIP blessing of sacrifice being removed from ret).

For me, classic’s paladin’s talent tree is being poorly designed. If they really wanted paladin to only heal, then both ret and protection trees should have been removed, making that class a true healer.

Indeed it is designed poorly, sadly. Not only was it rushed, one of the developers had a massive grudge against hybrid classes, coming off of runescape. Had they gave Holy Strike baseline to paladin, it would have been much better.

That is not what we are discussing - with that you just have a blank slate, nothing better than a priest. Paladin had the core of having good heals, great buffs and amazing (perhaps the most powerful of all classes) cooldowns, and the 3 supporting specs further built that. Of course, you don’t enhance those abilities as much with retribution, but instead your core kit helps you make yourself a viable support DPS (at least that is the design intent, not the outcome).

Well, that’s right, Jeff Kaplan explicitely said that he hated paladin’s counterpart.

Well, my concern is only hybrid tax. I mean, what’s the point of a DPS spec if it’s healer spec counterpart provide the same supportive tools and if it’s really bad at doing damages ?
From what I remember, Retribution paladin didn’t enhaced any supportive ability, we could, even in wrath we only had damages increase in ret tree (Or maybe I forget some).
If they were to add a specific ret supportive tool, well, I don’t see one.

Well, we used to have Kings as our last talent, and we still have stuff like Imp. BoM, Vindication, Repentance… problem is that in PvE, those really didn’t fit in.

Originally Retri was designed around debuffing (remember Crusader Strike - Holy Strike?). That should have been a good route for Retribution - being able to do average or above average damage, not top tier by any means, but they can debuff the enemy, and make use of their baseline stuff. Just think, the entire kit is there - SotC, SoL, SoW, Vindication, Crusader Strike (either increased Holy dmg taken as it was in the beta, or enemy deals 5% reduced physical dmg, as it was in Panda), Repentance, I guess you can add auras (even if they arent debuff effects) and Eye for an Eye, and later expansions saw Swift Retribution (3% haste for all party members afflicted by your aura), Judgments of the Just (10 / 20% reduced attack speed for 10 seconds on your Judgment target), and Selfless Healer.

Edit: Not to mention Paladin’s strength versus undead and demons: Holy Wrath being an AoE stun (well that wasn’t in Vanilla, but still), and to make Paladins a bit more viable, exorcism dealing less damage on non undead-demon targets, but when those are the targets, extra damage, and some sort of debuff (a short +5% extra damage taken, any small debuff really), as a Retri talent.

With Classic’s design, Retribution just tries to be a poor man’s enhancement shaman really. Thankfully private servers, intentionally or unintentionally made them an actually good version of enhancement shaman. And the thing is, the design was there… it was just never capitalized upon. Had they made retribution this way (and change raid sizes to 10/20/25 + remove the debuff limit), you would have the Paladin class, specializing in Retribution.

Nothing to do with classic imo…

Fixed to what they used to be means what? Some specs felt best during wotlk, others during cata and some during legion… All they gona do is bring back some abilities back and change talents a bit. But lets be honest, from what we know so far it aint gona be much and your class wont sudenly feels different/better until some major tweaks come into game…

Tbh i dont think that those changes are beeing made because of classic and if they are , blizzard are taking away the wrong impresion for why people like classic. Vanilla was fun because leveling was more of an adventure (exept if you are a frost mage :stuck_out_tongue: ) every mob was treath and you had to pick your fights, the level squish isnt going to make it feel more “classic-like”. Returning a few abillities will not bring back class identity either, again in classic the classes didn’t just feel different but they also had class quests to even further destinguish them. I loved classic but i eventually did grow tired of it and returned to retail. What i would like to se is a mix of both going forward, class identity and clas quests, tier sets, a more complex talent tree. I will not advocate for changes to leveling tough because the game is no longer designed like that and the classic-style of leveling will rub most people the wrong way.

no, but i hope classic wow success will live long enough to become TBC, the best version of wow as social mmorpg.

I stopped playing wow a while ago and came back just for Classic. I have played it way more wothin 2 months than I’ve played retail over the past few years combined.

I have nothing against anywhere who plays retail but ifs just not for me anymore.

I am hoping classic is a huge success so they keep it going because I haven’t had this much fun playing wow in a long time

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