Do you think the story arc of BfA can be redeemed?

Lore Story
61

I can’t see anything that the player character has contributed to the faction war that couldn’t have been done by random troops or the NPCs that were already in place. Sure, we are relevant for the Old God plot, but the faction war was the main story of the addon. This :poop: isn’t our story. At all.

Not nearly enough.

Yes. Because that’s what the genre is about. If it isn’t, it isn’t an RPG. So why don’t you just go and read a novel, if that’s the kind of story-telling you prefer? Really, that was uncalled for, and frankly, just a asinine thing to say, brass or no brass.

I don’t really think so, no. As an end goal? Of course. As an expectation? No.

And even if they did, it would be a stupid thing to cater to. “The players expect to kill Sargeras now, so we should let them. And after that? Super-Sargeras, I guess.”. WoW was meant to run as long as possible. Rushing to the end is not a good idea.

But they haven’t changed direction for the future, they haven’t learned from hindsight. They know by now that WoW could easily last another decade if handled right, and they still threw Archimonde and Kil’Jaeden at us as if it were nothing and made us defeat the whole frickin’ Legion (except Sargeras) on their home turf. It’s getting more extreme, not less.

And I would argue that the story behind is was absolute :cow2::poop: that threw continuity out of the window. Like I said before, BC was already a horrible addon concerning the story. The story-telling was just worse, so less people noticed. The :poop: was still there, there was just no spotlight upon it.

Illidan died at the Frozen Throne. That he survived was nothing less than a retcon at that point. And the explanation wasn’t there in TBC, it was thrown in years after, when they decided they wanted the master edgelord back.

And you are going to tell me that this enriched the story? I heartily disagree.

Yeah, and now character soap-drama seems to be the guiding principle. It isn’t important what happens, as long as it is dramatic, and next episode all the stuff that happened before will be ignored, if they don’t serve the dramatic moments we want next.

If that’s the choice, I want rule-of-cool back.

2 Likes
62

But it’s war. I like Blizzard’s angle on it so far. There are no heroes who saves the day. There are just armies and soldiers and acts of bravery. No one has a sense of winning in the destruction and devastation. It’s war.
I like that. It feels authentic? You’re insignificanct, and it feels hopeless.

Then it isn’t. I don’t know, I don’t particularly care for WoW to conform to some pseudo standard for a genre that I’d argue WoW defines in the first place.

Well you say you don’t want to play an RPG that does story like WoW. So… I mean, you’ve kind of climbed up the tree yourself there.

I’m still only arguing the merits of BfA, not anything at random before then.
I’m concluding that they didn’t kill Jaina or Azshara in their encounters, although they easily could. So they’re likely better at thinking ahead in terms of story today than back in the days with Illidan and Arthas.

No, I told you that the Illidan encounter was a gameplay-driven encounter, whereas other encounters since have been more story-driven.

I’m entertained, so I can’t complain.

63

Ok, I’m out. I don’t see anything I find in need of a response anymore, and don’t want to waste my time with more bickering. Your position is “but I like it”, got it. Good Night.

5 Likes
64

Short answer: no

Long answer: nooooooo

The story became unsalvageable the moment you finished your questing zones that the so called “war campaign” started.

4 Likes
65

When Sylvanas is finally out of the spotlight (however they do it) then the wounds can start to heal. Before then? You better lube up and bend over for the next round.

66

Kind of a response to both Wimbert and Jito.

I was one of the loyal BioWare Drones before SWTOR came out. I said “in BioWare we trust”, and I believed it. And while I did get a lot of satisfaction out of SWTOR (some class stories are superb), I came to the conclusion that SWTOR actually did storytelling worse than World of Warcraft. Their setting was incredible and they had a lot of background lore to back it all up and experiencing the story was a thrill, so how was it worse?

Well, the story wasn’t tailored for the genre. The story of SWTOR was tailored for a single player game, not an MMORPG. Every Imperial Agent was the Cipher 9 and every Sith Warrior was the Wrath. In order for this to work it requires everyone in the game to fall on suspension of disbelief. You have to actively filter out what you are seeing in the game in order for the story to make sense! The same thing happened in Legion. I didn’t like the class halls. If I was a druid then I was the archdruid and so was everyone else around me. In order for the story to make sense I had to pretend that they weren’t. Even then, like Wimbert said, you’re not really part of the story at all. The “Hero of Azeroth” is such a vague character that it can be basically anyone and no one at the same time.

So I think the storytelling has actually gotten a lot worse over the years. I think it is more or less impossible to avoid suspension of disbelief, but it can be minimized, and I think WoW classic does this well. I remember the first time I played Alterac Valley. I didn’t feel like some superhero, I felt like a grunt. Like one of the units you’d boss around in the RTS games. I wasn’t Arthas or Jaina or Thrall, I was one of the minions! I was a part of the world and so was everyone else around me! I didn’t need to pretend that they weren’t there.

So, to summarize: the storytelling of modern WoW, like SWTOR, is tailored for a single player experience. I find it endlessly tiresome being called “hero” by every important figure in the game. I don’t want to be the hero. I want to be a grunt. I don’t want to say that I defeated Onyxia. I want to say that I, alongside other grunts within my faction, fought together to overcome this terrible beast. I was merely a small part of a greater whole.

8 Likes
67

I think the suspension of disbelief in WoW (and many other MMOs) relies on the following premise:

In the story context only you exist and only your deeds count. The NPCs only recognize you as the adventurer, the soldier, the champion, the hero, and so on.
All the other players around you don’t exist within your story, except when it’s convinient, i.e. as fellow adventurers or soldiers.
Story moments haven’t happened until they’ve happened for you. Sageras hasn’t plunged his sword into Silithus until you’ve defeated Argus, regardless of whether it’s already there.

In a gameplay context the suspension of disbelief is lifted and it’s perfectly normal that 50 people kill Hogger in a day, because respawning monsters are a thing. And it’s also fine that there’s 10 Paladins standing around who all wield The Ashbringer, because a shared game world is a thing.

I think players just have to be aware when they’re playing the game and immersing themselves in the story context of it, and when they’re focusing entirely on the gameplay context.
And I think people can actually make that distinction pretty well. I don’t think anyone’s truly confused why there are other Paladins who also wield The Ashbringer when Tirion gave it to me! I think most players understand that that’s within the story context, and that within the gameplay context it’s a shared world and everyone who plays a Paladin can go through the same questing experience and get the same sword.

1 Like
68

You are correct, but I’d argue that one example here weighs considerably more than the other. Hogger is part of a very minor story within the Elwynn forest. The only thing that differentiates him from the other gnolls in the area is that he’s slightly larger. I’ve pulled him by accident for mistaking him for a regular gnoll when playing Classic. The Ashbringer, however, is a very iconic weapon with a legendary status within Warcraft lore.

Otherwise, I agree with what you wrote. The anachronistic nature of World of Warcraft is bewildering. I do believe there are ways to design around such things. One example would be to have more B-stories within the overarching narrative that are not bound to specific points in time. It wouldn’t solve the issue, but it would at least dampen its effects. But instead we have the opposite… I have to look up guides in order to play the quests of BfA in the right order.

2 Likes
69

You’re getting in touchy territory here, since the existence of the Adventurer in lore is debatable, and what the Adventurer does is unclear, if they exist at all.

We know from Chronicles that the Adventurer goes unmentioned - Dungeons and Raids have become locations that were cleared out by teams of Horde/Alliance soldiers or teams of neutrals. The Lich King is defeated by an elite team, going by the name of the Ashen Verdict, but again, the Adventurer remains unmentioned. And what about characters that were created past Cataclysm? Is the Lich King defeated for newly created Forsaken characters? They were raised by Val’kyr, so that should imply that they were raised only after his defeat, but our Forsaken character hasn’t personally killed the Lich King. And how about the Adventurer being replaced by NPCs? We know from the cutscene about depowering the Sword of Sargeras that NPCs wield artifacts we were supposed to wield. Does the lore change based on what race or class one plays with? Doesn’t this downplay the truthfulness and universality lore is supposed to have?

So, who actually does exist?

4 Likes
70

Unless they retcon/rewrite evrything no…and bfa is better off after end like 95% of it isnt cannon anymore

71

The top keeps spinning or will it fall? :open_mouth:

72

bumping this in light of the new cinematics

i don’t want to say i called it, but i kinda did

except the bit about tyrande, but she’s now set up as the alliance baddie who will end up raid-bossed to death so shandris can take over. i bet you.

1 Like
73

Schrödinger’s adventurer.

74

NOT REALLY, it’s terrible, today with that damn videos, it’s all sure, there was NO PLOT TWIST AS THEY PROMISED, everyone EXPECTED how it will this end FROM THE DAY ONE, and they made villain of the last interesting character from the horde, now we have only baine, and thrall that doesnt appear at all, Sylvanas been introduced as so amazing character since forever just til the bfa when someone with IQ - 10 got the job as the writer, S*ITSHOW !!!

1 Like
75

Cinematics already up on WoWhead and of course, more shock value with little substance, cliffhangers, Sylvanas just peacing out and Calia Menethil and Derek Proudmoore being honestly cringeworthy.

Thanks, I hate it.

3 Likes
76

Sylvanas stopped being interesting after Arthas arc, sorry.

Also fate of forsaken have been known since Vanilla forsaken introduction cutscene. :man_facepalming:

Honestly sorry for every Horde player, rebel or Loyalist

3 Likes
77

If sylvanas stopped being interesting, then thing about last characters in horde we got- baine, and thrall.

78

Lack of good characters doesnt make her character interesting. And wouldnt call in AMAZING.

79

but she used to be interesting character, one of the best imo if u know her whole lore.
and now ? WTF IS THAT, the whole bfa writing is just so cringeworthy

2 Likes
80

this is the crux of everything, i think

what’s weird is, as bad as it’s been, there were some moments i thought they were about to throw us a curveball, turn the story in an interesting direction, and potnetially salvage the whole thing… but as soon as i start to think that they release the next patch and it brings more of the same poo

1 Like