Don't ban all russians

PVP Battlegrounds
1

yea, ok so I implore you to please hear me out. BLIZZ ARE YA READING?

Put an end to the good feeling cheaters get when they manage to exploit the game and join as massive pre-mades in random BG’s.

Why is this a bad thing?

The mental strain it causes other people who are joining the random queue alone. It causes high stress levels and a heavy atmosphere of demoralisation and negativity with in our own groups facing these guys. It happens too often, this is the issue. Not only that, but the queue times are so long too, so we’re willingly wasting hours queueing only to be facing exploiters half the time. I know you think this doesn’t exist but there are many videos on youtube showing how they do it. It’s not just the russians btw that title is bait.

How do we solve this? I believe based on the fact that banning people takes a huge toll on your system having to watch replays or whatever it is that you do, the real solution is to take away their fun and allow full pre-mades to join random BG’s regardless.

So for Arathi? Sure, queue up 7-10-15 if you like and play a game for good practice and coordination, or just for a brawl. Atleast if everyone is allowed to do it easily through custom group finder, then exploiters will not be having fun anymore. Infact they’ll probably stop doing it because now they’re faced with a real challenge they can’t easily zerg through like they’re used to. They don’t care about the people they fight, they do it for DPS racing and to see how long they can drag out a BG for.

Please give me a good reason why we should not be allowed to just join as a full premade?

inb4: pro groups will only let 2.5k rated players join. Just make your own group or join a for-fun group instead.

Other thoughts: Will we face 2.5k rated teams? probably but here’s something to think about, these types of players play BG’s entirely differently, they play in a way that’s not a total mess giving you guys the chance to learn and also coordinate, giving your healers a chance to focus healing properly and give everyone a job to do.

“Why not just join rated bg’s then?”

Well I’m glad you immediately ignored everything and jumped straight to that, billy. Listen here, and listen carefully. We want to try and stop people exploiting random BG’s as if they are sponsored to zerg randoms for sadistic entertainment. The anxiety around joining rated is palpable, people are afraid to let the team down knowing that a rating is tied to it. This can scare people off entierly from participating, however if you allow raids to join random BG’s where rating isn’t a thing, the games will be a bit different and people will experiment more, I believe the queue times will be shorter, participation will be much higher and cheaters will be left seething or come around and just join anyway and stop cheating.

Please discuss, keep this alive, this could be a really positive change to the random BG hero’s who just wanna join a game and have fun.

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I don’t have a problem with premades.
If 10/15/40ppl want to organise & coordinate, that’s great & should be encouraged.
But putting them against <40 undergeared & uncoordinated Randoms shifts the balance too much (90% win ratio!?). Who wants to queue into a 30min game with 10% chance to win?

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But they don’t want to play against other premade. There was on Horde 1 big PvP community with OWPvP stuff and Epic BGs before classic release - Ru Alliance premades just leave in most of the cases if they play against them. This types of the players want to ez wins. They stack a lot of healers - que together and thats all. Even coordinates is not the main reason of win.

2 Likes
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That’s absolutely true, this is why allowing pre-mades for randoms would stomp out their relevance. If they want easy wins, they’re gonna have to play properly and outperform other players, otherwise they just simply wont play at all and we can all have our own fun. Random BG’s don’t have to be so serious but I’m tired of being stressed and overwhelmed with negativity due to the regular and unfortunate pairing of our teams.

5

I think I’d be ok with this.

I don’t see how else full premades are supposed to learn to work together outside of rated.
…& I’d love to see how a full team of monks would roll.

Perhaps though, given the H>A distribution, it could result in worse queue times & solo’ers facing a disgusting amount of uneven bg’s.

6

Personally I feel that max should be 5 in a premade.

If you want more you should practise against other premades, premade is premade and not random.

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7

Because it will likely get matched against a random group and not another premade. Unless Blizzard wants to implement a system that would more strictly match premades to premades which would, however, increase queue times.

And by “strictly” I mean a system that looks at the average ilvl (since gear matters so much), honor level, and number of players in a premade group. So it would do that and then hold the queue until it finds another group of similar matchmaking value.

There may be a simpler way…

Merging all (different language) servers together in the same queue would decrease the chances people have of ending up in the same bg if they simultaneously queue two or three 5-mans. Then steps can be taken to increase overall participation (reducing power gap, for example). The more people that participate in instanced PvP, the harder it is to game the system.

Or maybe Blizzard could fix this by implementing a system that does not allow more than one 5-man group in regulars and two 5-mans in epics. If a 5-man premade joins a random bg, the other 5 or 10 would have to be random players UNLESS the system finds two or three 5-mans for the opposing team. I don’t think that would affect queue times all that much.

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You make a half decent case there but as for implementing these systems, we know blizz wont shell out the cash for proper bot prevention solutions so I doubt they’d do any of this.

I said in another thread that random BG matchmaking should use margins of ilvl so people with distances of 20ilvl can match, but outside get matched within their 20ilvl margin.

@the others

People can still queue solo and find themselves placed into spare slots between the BG’s with premade groups. It’s no biggie really, and some premades might be disgustingly good, but then they’ll face other similarly skilled premades too. The positives in this is that sometimes a guy might leave the premade mid-bg and a soloqueuer might get that slot as part of a winning team.

The soloqueuers like myself will have more opportunity to create and join other premades in the group finder though, and they’ll likely have a better experience because of that. I think due to this allowance of premades, more participation will occur and possibly even out the horde/alliance distribution. If there’s a healthy BG scene then I’m quite positive that people will make guilds on opposite factions to help even things out and even challenge themselves. The idea is to create this scene where random BG’s are busy because now we’re not constantly demoralised facing exploiters and long, long queues.

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unless we have premades vs premades and solo vs solo, it would just make things worse…

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I think nobody knows what would happen for sure, so if for just one month blizz did a trial on this. It should be a simple thing to implement by allowing raids to join, I think they used to be able to so it’d be more like just nullifying that line of prevention code for a month.

11

Well, technically, it would require the same resources invested to lift the 5man limit (and thus allow 10,15 man premades for all) as it would to impose a strict 5man limit so that no more than a single 5man ends up in the same BG together with another 5man premade.

The other systems I described would require more work, yes.

That would probably increase queue times though. It would be easier and it would also solve many other problems if gear didn’t matter as much. A gear scaling system (more or less what we had in WoD) could be re-implemented to address this.

12

Russians and other tryhards do not want to play againts other premades thats why they tryharding in randoms and not in rated bgs.

Sollution is to merge them with everyone like in epic bgs. I was here when this was done in epics and lol you cant imagine how butthurt they was. Im still laughing when i think about it.

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They are not.

/thread

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14

I wish they would tbh. I think due to the circumstances there aren’t any good enough counter arguments as to why we can’t group up beyond 5 to join a random BG.

Also, if they simply rename the random BG to just Battlegrounds, then there’s no confused and no argument such as “it’s called random tho, so it has to stay random”. Just rename it, done, problem solved.

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Because all those people that choose to solo-queue for their own reasons will always be at a massive disadvantage which will eventually lead them to quit. Love them or hate them, they are an essential part of our community and without them PvP queues would take hours.

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16

Premades are so selfish for random battlegrounds. Blizzard must remove premade groups from random battlegrounds. If someone wants to make premades, go for rated battlegrounds. Random battlegrounds should be for solo players.

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@Sugorim:

I don’t hate them, they can solo queue by joining a group in custom group finder, or solo queue the usual way and likely get put with a premade anyway. Atleast they’d have an intense BG with more of a sense of organised teamwork.

@Kamigawa

I already addressed this. Rated BG’s give you rating, therefore automatically have a huge pressure put on the player joining the pug. They are expected to win because they have rating to lose. This increases anxiety in the people who don’t want to do rated BG’s plus the expectation to even get into a rated BG group are as bad as mythic+ expectations: be 2.5k rated, 470ilvl minimum ez win gogogo kinda stuff.

If we allow raid groups to join random BG’s, and just call them Battlegrounds, we can completely nullify the exploiters reasons for wanting to join as a premade because they’ll face a challenge they’re simply not interested in being up against. Problem solved, they’ll get so angry about it aswell while we enjoy jumping into fun custom BG groups for a good game, or not, solo queue would still be a thing regardless and participation I believe would increase as a result of this flexibility. Keep the random rewards though ofc.

18

You mean exploiters premades wont join anymore because they will always face premades?! You overestimate their wish to exploit, what they want is stomping, stomping and stomping again

Well just imagine: if i create a raid for arathi, do you think as raid leader i would recruit 450 ilvl players?! Nope. So what is changing for all casual 445 - 465 players? And even if i would, exploiters as you call them, would just have 475+ or more requirement for their raid, which is probably what they already have, 100% meta comp full op corruptions with tons of fire mages and then would still destroy at GY enemy 99% of the time.

Exploiters will always find a way to exploit if they can premade this is why rated have become so awful to play. Let solo queuers breath in their own bracket with a “solo only” queue option that is really the only way i think. This is what all other pvp games offer.

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Nobody. Organised premades are annoying for random groups regardless of nationality. Even more so with the power gap between players being so wide.

I know you don’t hate them - just a figure of speech! :slight_smile:

I’m not sure what you mean here. People who solo-queue do not want to spend time in the custom group finder for a variety of reasons. Assuming what you are suggesting was to come to life, those players would still choose to solo-queue (most likely). And they would still have a good chance of playing against a pre-made (perhaps even a greater chance) unless there was a different queue for pre-mades and solo-queuers. But if that was the case, queues for pre-mades would be intolerable.

There are more fruitful and more predictable ways to address matchmaking in randoms, in my opinion.

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21

What’s < current year > got to do with anything? This isn’t about nationality, this is about premades abusing an exploit which surely has to be against ToS. They’re not better players, they’re exploiters:

imgur .com / a / JxtR7S0

The reason I even bring up the Russians is because Russians are just well known for it, and they fully admit to it, they know they do it. (my example above isn’t to show Russians abusing an exploit but is the most recent example of people doing this, because people just don’t believe it’s even possible)

I’m trying to figure out a way of completely nullifying their existence, or atleast force them to really work hard at the game so they can have the highest possible gear to stomp BG’s. If this is the case however, they will surely face others will full gear and good coordination too, so it’s fighting fire with fire.

However, Treeka makes a point that people will request specifically above certain ilvl’s for these custom teams too, leaving out people with lower ilvl gear.

I have never agreed with ilvl in the first place, or GS in wotlk. It’s easily faked to get higher ilvl, it doesn’t mean your damage is guaranteed to be better or anything, because gear optimisation plays a huge role. I’m ilvl 454 and I pull huge numbers in raids, competing with people who have 100khp more than I do.

I think regardless, since they wont remove the ilvl thing, we either have raids to be allowed in non-rated BG’s, or we disallow any groups from forming for these altogether.

So either: allow raids, or force solo-queue only. I suggest we mix all ethnic origins together too, so we’re being faced with just russians, or just germans. This way, in non-rated, language barriers can be the issue or non-issue across both competing teams, so they have to just work together objectively without a spoken word.

1 Like