Dragonflight Season 4 Dungeon Changes Ahead

[Furyeclipser-stormscale]

Seasonal affix was fiddly and lead to fails, but scaling felt very nice. We were progressing from +2 onward. As it should be.

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

@Lilíith-draenor

in new system - it will be even worse for you if you are person who never did higher then +10

Not in this expac no, but I remember the biggest pain in the rear end was dealing with the affixes while there was mechanics already going off, the numerical differences of damage and abilities to dodge that actually come from mobs and bosses is whatever, you can more easily plan and mitigate or overcome that, numerically I just cannot agree with this statement.
The leap will be big, but it will not be as hard of a filter as you’re trying to make it out to be, or atleast how I’m interpreting the picture you’re trying to paint (which really does sound kind of doomspeakery)

As for leavers, I havn’t pugged since Legion so I don’t see this as an issue.
even if it was 4 familiars and 1 johnny rando, I would not start the dungeon then, its either a group of 5 and I know all of them or I’m not even entering the dungeon, so again, leavers? unlikely, they’re all friends and when we quit a dungeon we do so when we unanimously decide to, this is how we’ve always ran dungeons

I’ll be honest I still despise affixes and timers so I might still not give a damn about +2, but I will likely give it a try with an open enough mind that if I have a fun time I might change my mind on that.

@Chronotis-doomhammer

Personally my ideal position would be for both timed and non-timed M+ equivalents to be available then we all have the choice.

I’ve just given it my thought how to do it and make it fair and while I know people don’t like the weekly lockouts for m0 I do think the fact that m0 isn’t timed or affixed is the reason it has weekly lockouts

I would be open to a m+ light without affixes and/or timers but with weekly lockouts so people can’t just farm them endlessly which would make m+ itself pointless, which is not what this should be imo

The more suggestions people would make to a system that would work and still be fair for m+ with timers and affixes the more likely blizzard will consider it for the future.

the affixes are still there in new m+ . starting with +2

they are not gone

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Lilíith-draenor

the affixes are still there in new m+ . starting with +2

they are not gone

I never said they were gone

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

I’ll be honest I still despise affixes and timers so I might still not give a damn about +2, but I will likely give it a try with an open enough mind that if I have a fun time I might change my mind on that.

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Deadguy-agamaggan

Yes, you ignored the objective things and instead projected your own subjective feelings and opinions on 50% of the playerbase, and then cried about being called dishonest for it. God tier argumentation skills.

Also go to the first reply you posted in this thread and try to tell me with a straight face that you’re not reacting emotionally.

well its kinda objective fact if he checked the statisticks on raider io.

50 % of people were not able to progress past 10 - they now wont be able to complete m0 if they dont have gear / crests from 2-9

those people are now effectiely gated compeltly from doing m+

now add to this crowd the crowd who were doing 11-15 over whole season only after they got upgrades from 2-10 .

those peopel wont be able to progress either in new system .

and yes - people who did +20 and higher will do just fine.

untill they decide to level up new alt - unless they have friends who are willing to carry them and boost them while they underperform .

[Bankoeverzo-silvermoon]

Whoosh.

That’s what people are doing and hence why this game has lost so many players.

[Konstantino-celebras]

@Bobb-dentarg

Worst idea ever. Who asked for this?? All my frustrations in M+ is only about affixes not the amount of levels for max loot?? wtf lizard

Then this new System will actually be good for you. Where before you got with M7 your first Affix beside the Timer and skaleable enemies now M15 adds the first Affix.
Meanwhile the second harder Affix that came already with M14 will with the new System only annoy people that play M20 or beyond.

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Lilíith-draenor

50 % of people were not able to progress past 10 - they now wont be able to complete m0 if they dont have gear / crests from 2-9

that’s your observation not a data . people will have the gear over time and people who only do low keys dont rush them anyway.

@Lilíith-draenor

those people are now effectiely gated compeltly from doing m+

no they are not. if anything they’ll have a better place to practice to do higher levels so they can get KSM by themselves but ofc. boosters may not be happy about this.

@Lilíith-draenor

untill they decide to level up new alt - unless they have friends who are willing to carry them and boost them while they underperform .

right now it’s not possible to carry people either, group are empty no one’s doing below +10 keys.

[Mistjo-argent-dawn]

@Furyeclipser-stormscale

Seasonal affix was fiddly and lead to fails, but scaling felt very nice. We were progressing from +2 onward. As it should be.

Yes, but M+2 was very easy. It was just that keys got harder per keylevel than now. Blizz isn’t making the new M+2 very easy. They just scale it to M+11-12. It is just a minus -10 keylevels.

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Mistjo-argent-dawn

Yes, but M+2 was very easy. It was just that keys got harder per keylevel than now. Blizz isn’t making the new M+2 very easy. They just scale it to M+11-12. It is just a minus -10 keylevels.

affix changes affect difficulty so i dont think it’s directly a 10 level cut

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

The easiest way to understand the changes IMO is to look at the reward chart at towards the end of the article. It shows both what the dungeon level and rewards are in S3 and shows what they will be in S4.

[Mistjo-argent-dawn]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

right now it’s not possible to carry people either, group are empty no one’s doing below +10 keys.

I literally did (started) 3 below +10s last week (finished 1).

[Deadguy-agamaggan]

I don’t have an issue with looking at the number. I have an issue with looking at that number and assuming it means it was too difficult for half of the playerbase. And you’re now doing the exact same thing. Having that number is one thing, knowing why it is that number specifically is a completely different thing. It’s jumping to conclusions based on assumptions.

Let’s use an analogy. I’ll give you a made up statistic and you tell me if you see the flaw in it:

• statistic: 80% of car owners never went and finished a lap on a race track
• conclusion: 80% of the human population have repeatedly tried and failed to drive a car to the finish line during a race

Do you think the conclusion is reasonable?

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Mistjo-argent-dawn

I literally did (started) 3 below +10s last week (finished 1).

i mean there arent enough players. as i stated above i tried to help out a friend and we couldn’t even form +6s a month ago and that was in prime time & earlier in the season. it takes too long to form groups at those levels which makes their journey even more tedious

[Mistjo-argent-dawn]

I had no problem last weekend. But it is your experience so i am not going to doubt it.

[Vicktor-aszune]

It depends on spec and linked IO. If I dust of my VDH and do keys I won’t even need to link my main to get a +4 going.

If I want to play Havoc I’ll be linking my main and begging people for an invite to their +4.

[Isdren-blackmoore]

There is 0 effort includet to get the actually “best gear” anyway.
It was “hard” the first week. Complicated in the second and easy in the third.
If you dont want to put in the efford you buy a WoW token, Convert it into gold and buy a boost from a Community.

0 Efford is not a valid argument. M+ is EASY till 20 and will always be “easy” if this season woudnt have so much “oneshoot” mechanics that will just kill the group you could clear 20 with ilvl 450 since “DPS” is not the issue this season.
You just need enough HP to survive the “near oneshoots” (aka the ilvl for more max hp) and everything is fine.

There is literally no reason to have a timer in the “gear progression” phase of M+. Add a Ladder, Leaderboard, Archivments and maybe a full transmog Set per dungeon (each piece droping at higher m+ lvl) and you still have enough reasons to try to go higher.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

I think that’s a bit of a strange attitude. There is every effort to gear up and get bis gear. Ask anyone who has run a particular dungeon or raid umpteen times to get a drop.

[Furyeclipser-stormscale]

They are refusing to acknowledge that significant percentage of the playerbase is simply not interested in m+.

[Jìmusa-draenor]

good changes, too bad it still means we have to play awful awful dungeons like rise, nokhud, halls of infusion for a full season. no thanks.

[Mistjo-argent-dawn]

@Furyeclipser-stormscale

They are refusing to acknowledge that significant percentage of the playerbase is simply not interested in m+.

Whatever the reason is they arent getting to high keylevels; there are quite some casual friends and family players around who just dip in the low levels of M+ . I am not going to talk bad about that.